Mottle camourflage schemes

Discussion in 'Painting Questions, Tutorials and Guidebooks' started by parsifal, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    GB23 is due to start, and ive selected a 1/72 Heja of the Honved Legero 1/2 Dongo, June 1942. The kit is by Italeri and looks pretty straightforward to me....famous last words perhaps. but the aircraft does involve a dappled 9or mottled colour schem with no less than 4 parts to it. My question is pretty simple really. How best to go about this, without any storebought masks. Starting questions include"airbrush or just brush", how to cut and fit the masks, colour sequencing....but any advice, including "run for your life" will be appreciated.
     
  2. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Can you post a picture of the scheme?
     
  3. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    This is one rendition of the scheme
     

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  4. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Oh, OK.

    I would suggest that at 1/72 scale, any attempt to airbrush this scheme without some way of controlling the overspray would present challenges. I'd suggest three methods that you could use:

    1) cut some mottle patterns into a piece of stiff cardboard, hold the cardboard about 2 to 3mm over the model surface and airbrush your colour through the holes.

    2) Using a brush, paint the mottles and drybrush the edges. This will take some practice so try it on some scrap first and I'd suggest you use enamel for this. To drybrush, get an old paint brush and cut it down so that you get just 1 to 2 mm of bristles. Dip the cut brush in paint and dab it continuously on a paper towel or newspaper until there is minimal paint transferred then dab the edges of the painted mottle to simulate a soft edge. You could also do the whole mottle in this fashion with the same brush, starting with more paint in the center of the mottle and working the brush to the edges as the paint is depleted.

    3) Do the same as above with pastels: Using Pastels to Mottle Aircraft
     
  5. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    What do you think of these ideas

    Assemble the model but dont attach the canopy, the props undercarriage etc. For the moment keep the wings and fuselage separate, but by dry fit make sure wings and fuslegare will fit snugly.


    cut templatese for each wing, using the siff cardboard as suggested. put 2-3mm styrene spacers between the card and the model skin, then tape into place . Do the same for each wing, and also for the fuselage.

    Apply the pain as thinned as spoosible, maybe even 75% thinner .

    Remove the card templates join the wings to the fuselage, should only require minor touch up probably with a dry brush, along the seam.

    Its pretty much the same as normal method, but a few differences.

    i have some spare (scrap) P-38 wings I would practice this on and see if it works or not.

    anyway, just an idea
     
  6. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    The artists pastels method looks very cool, and might be worth a try as well. It looks like dry brushing, but using a dabbing motion rather than a brushing motion, and a chopped/cropped back brush. I would think these artists pastels would, if anything, work better with acrylics compared to enamel base coats. I also assume the application of the pastel powder is done dry, not with any water....but how to keep the pastel from blowing away, or worse, smudgng the model
     
  7. stona

    stona Well-Known Member

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    When I airbrush mottling, which is fairly frequently, I don't alter my paint thinning ratio or air pressure. Having fiddled about to find settings that work for my set up and paints it doesn't seem to make sense to alter them for one particular type of spraying. I keep seeing people professing the best way to spray mottling is to thin by so much, reduce air pressure by this much, but why?
    Just sayin'
    Cheers
    Steve
     
  8. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    When I use pastels, I use a micro brush and kind of grind the powders into the panel lines,applying a heavier than normal amount, because I find that when adding the overcoat, you tend to lose a bit of powder. I add the pastels over a flat coat as I feel the powders adhere a bit better, but practice first to see how it works for you.
    Alpha-Essential Tools

    1301.jpg

    Geo
     
  9. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    #9 Crimea_River, Jul 25, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
    I'm personally not a believer in painting a model before fully assembling the wings to the fuselage.

    The pastels don't really care if you apply them to enamels or acrylics as long as, as George says, the base coat is flat. The pastels can be applied in several "coats", dabbed as you say, until you get the right density. Excess powder is easily blown off the model and it doesn't smudge unless you grind it into the surface or get your fingers all over them. You'll need to handle the model carefully and I suggest you use latex gloves until the mottles are done and a clearcoat is sprayed over them.
     
  10. Wayne Little

    Wayne Little Well-Known Member

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    That aircraft is a good candidate for the Pastel mottling, Tamiya Desert yellow base colour looks like a possibility, then Green and Red Brown pastels...
     

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  11. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    im going to build a facsimile wing and make templates of the various colour elements. 1st coat will be the italian sand yellow...no template. next a template with the green bits cut out. Put it over the wing with spacers underneath. Use very thin paint to try and achieve that fade in look, but ill be happy if it doesnt run to be honest. wait for that to dry then remove that green spot template. in its place put the brown one in and spray again. I should by then have the green and the brown spots done and i will know if i can get a reasonable finish with the airbrush. if it doesnt work, ill try these other methods. hand brushing is easiest, but im a hopeless hand brusher, and i think it will be challenging to achieve the fade in/fade out out effect that is so apparent with this scheme. Dry brushing would be needed, and whilst i can do that a bit, this is altogether a different proposition to anything dry brushing wise ive ever done before. the pastel method does look intersting, and does achieve a very nice result, but it scares me a bit to have to rely on a technique that i have never known about until two days ago
     
  12. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    That technique should work Michael. Just go easy on the paint and do very light passes.
     
  13. destrozas

    destrozas Well-Known Member

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    #13 destrozas, Jul 27, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
    I personally would do airbrush is one of the most beautiful works to make the spotted forum have placed a job I did on the breda BE88 "lince" airbrush on this scale, or Vultee V1A also speckled've only regulate the travel airbrush needle to make the minimum possible paint out.

    if you can regulate the pressure much lower pressure and dilute the paint helps to paint this scheme,

    IMG_0038.jpg

    IMG_0059-1.jpg

    44ee3fd6.jpg

    3078f613.jpg
     
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  14. destrozas

    destrozas Well-Known Member

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    and finally I found the pictures to place michael.

    are two examples of the first two avones freehand but I have mig3 also painted well, it seems difficult but practicing painting so is mastering before painting the plane on a piece of plastic to be taking practice, there people recommending the role whet couple practices but actually the plastic has a very different behaviors than on paper and then not fit in the plastic, the main thing is to never stop painting inside the plane and start in, before starting air always give 2 seconds so if you just paint on the tip is thrown and clean the needle, low pressure 0.5 bar / 7.25psi, light strokes little paint per pass, this kind of camouflage is usually blurred edges so if it is not very marked good too.
     
  15. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    Fantastic job on a small scale aircraft but great looking on any scale aircraft Sergio

    Geo
     
  16. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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  17. Lucky13

    Lucky13 Forum Mascot

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    That is some beautiful work Sergio!
     
  18. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    freehand mottling....now that is truly amazing sergio......and certainly something for me to think about. Just remember, I have three colours to apply. Does that make a difference?
     
  19. Capt. Vick

    Capt. Vick Well-Known Member

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    My Friend, this may be a cop-out, but an Italian company called Tauro makes decals of Regia Aeronautica camo schemes, a bunch of them. Look them up. It can't hurt to look.
     
  20. parsifal

    parsifal Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the tip. I had a look and even though it is a strictly Italian mottle scheme, the differences appear quite minor. I think I will order some sheets and give this a try. I might fall back to this as a back up if my current thinking and experimentation doesn't work

    Using this stuff seems a bit tricky. I assume you would apply the decals I sections and that the cut lines would need to not cut though any of the colour blotches of the mottle scheme. this would be important for areas like the wing root, where the wing meets the fuselage. Also on the dorsal area of the fuselage, I think it might be necessary to do the vertical bits as one piece, the curved more or less horizontal bits as a separate piece.

    Andy (wildcat) used decals similar for his recent seaplane build. Did not go well for him, because the decal looked like carpet in the finish.


    I don't know, Im of two minds on this suggestion. on the one hand its a proven method, and the scheme is close to what I want. on the other hand, its close but still not quite right, and other more capable members have not had a lot of success with decaling for colour schemes. But I think it worth investigating at least.
     
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