No 56 Squadron, RAF, 'The Firebirds', 1918 - 2008.

[Maestro]

That sounds like an interresting project, Airframes... Good luck with it.

I had a project that was about similar... Building an airfield (well, at least a part of it) in 1/48. I'm starting to have an interresting amount of RAF/USAAF planes and ground figures, however I still need to find a room for that large diorama.

 

[Lucky13]

You could always do what I do Vic, Photobucket! I upload my pics there....

 

[Airframes]

Hi Vic, great to hear from you! First, to re-size your pictures, the eaisest and quickest route is to download, for free, 'Irfanview'. This will allow you to re-size your pics quickly and easily - just follow the sequemce, and don't forget to 'Save' the re-sized image, or t'll return to original size once you exit the programme. For forum use, anything up to 800 x 600 pixels, max, is fine. If you need any help with this, just ask!
Now, down to business and a few questions! As you will have discovered, there are a number of types used by 56 Sqn that aren't available in 1/48th scale kit form. I'm not too concerned about the pre-war aircraft, sticking to representative types from the formation of the R.A.F. to the begining of WW2. These will be the SE5A, Bristol Bulldog and Gloster Gladiator - I'll omit the Snipe, Grebe,Siskin and Gauntlett, although a kit of the latter is about somewhere I believe.
WW2 will be covered by Hurricane Mk1, possibly a MkIIB also, the car-door Typhoon and the Tempest MkV. The Spit MkIX I'm leaving out as they were only used for 2 months, and are not fully representative of Squadron types. However, the post-war period is lacking. I can do a Meteor F4 or, at half the price, the Tamiya Meteor F3 - more on this one later!
To save on space, and financial outlay(!), I'll only do one of each representative type, rather than all Marks of individual aircraft used. But, I haven't been able to find a Swift yet. Do you know which company produced a kit, vac-form or otherwise, and if it is still available?
Next question! On the Meteor F3, I want to display the transition from camouflage to overall 'silver'-painted finish, which I think these aircraft would have worn towards the end of their Squadron service, as the Meteor F4 did. Do you happen to know A) if this is correct, and B) if the 'adopted' codes 'ON' were worn during this later period of service, or if they reverted back to the ofiginal 'US' codes displayed on the Meteor F4?
I've asked my cousin, who was in Air Traffic at Waterbeach, briefly, before moving to Acklington, but of course he only remembers the F4, as the F3 had 'retired' by then.
Any help would be greatly appreciated, and it's good to know I'm not alone in this project! I looked long and hard at 'favourite' squadrons before finally choosing either 56 or 43, and would really like to get this project completed. I draw the line at modelling a 1/48th scale Sentry though! Anyway, '56' now isn't the same '56', being on totally different types and duties!
I was fortunate to be able to see the Lightnings in the 60's, including the 9-ship formation with 'The Firebirds', a sight and sound I'll always remember! As for pics of the Tornados, I found a couple of good shots on the 'net, dated between the mid '90's to retirement in April 2008, and one aircraft I can't resist, as it bears my initials as the tail code!
I'll be using the Airfix kit for the Tornado, which I understand has some fit issues, but Hobby Boss are also bringing out a kit of the F3 in 1/48th scale, sometime soon.
BTW, welcome to the forum!
Terry.

 

[Lucky13]

(pheeeew!)

 

[Airframes]

Well, at least I got the questions out of the way in one go, old boy!!

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Greetings from OZ
Thanks for the info on pics, managed to crack it myself last night.
Ok Terry, first things first, great to hear from you and I'm kind' a glad I've not upset the apple cart to much and I'm only to glad to pass on what I know to aid in your project.
Yes, the Gauntlet Mk II is available from Hannants Hannants - Plastic model kits and accessories and Aeroclub model and in injection mould @ £25.93, I have it in vacform waiting to be built, but I'm not that fond of vacform especially with the rigging so may reinvest in the injection.
I agree that the Spitfire was only with the squadron for April to June 44, but this was a crucial time in the invasion of Europe with allied aircraft identified by the hastily painted black and white stripes, so I included it in my collection.
I also found the Swift a hard nut to crack the kit I used was vacform and metal that had to have a couple of modifications done to it. I note that it is also available from Hannants in a Falcon vacform kit @ £26.03.
You are spot on with the Meteor, the squadron retained US code but in April 1946 at RAF Bentwaters when the squadron reformed from 124 Squadron before moving to RAF Boxted in Sep 46, for a while they had the ON code with camouflaged aircraft. This was changed sometime in 1947 back to US and the silver aircraft with the red and white check badge. ON codes and tail numbers that I have for that time are ON-H EE271 later changed to US-H, ON-N EE365 and ON-T EE391. They also has an F.4 with code ON-S EE459 later changed to US-S. Needless to say, with the F.8 the code had been dropped.
I was greatly saddened and upset to see the disbandment of 56 from a fighter squadron to group of intelligence gatherers at Waddington. Lets hope the phoenix will rise again, maybe with an F.35?
I currently have two Phantoms and two Tornados on the go, the phantoms are Hasegawa and good kits, with a little bit of filling and sanding, one is for the Alcock and Brown trans Atlantic crossing in 1979 flown in a 56 Phantom by Sqn Ldr Alcock and Flt Lt Browne both 56 pilots. The other is with the red tail in the final days of the Phantom. The Tornadoes are an Airfix (yuk) and an Italeri. Airfix Tornado will be with 1993 display red tail and the Italeri as the 2000 millennium Firebird tail. Being a gluten for punishment, I'm thinking of a third Tornado with the 2005 display colours.
Yes, the Airfix Tornado needs a lot of work, it's a very chunky moulding with loads of pin marks and lots of filling to get the intakes right. At one stage it almost went in the bin, but I to a deep breath (several) and carried on.
I've a number of tail numbers to hand right across the range and am always on the lookout for new info, so if I can help more, just drop a line, direct if you like.
And now to the photo evidence:
Pic 56-1 from left front to back: SE 5a. Sopwith Snipe. Gloster Grebe. Right rear to front: Siskin IIIa. Bristol Bulldog Ia. Gloster Gladiator I.
Pic 56-2: Hurricane Mk I (US-Z). Hurricane Mk IIb (US-R). Typhoon Mk Ia (US-A). Typhoon Mk Ib (US-H).
Pic 56-3: Spitfire Mk XI (US-L) Battle of Britain markings. Tempest Mk IV (US-T). Meteor F.3 (US-N). Meteor F.4 (Tail VT283).
Pic 56-4: Meteor F.8 (Tail VZ480) at back. Swift F.1 to left. Hunter F.5 back right. Hunter F.6 foreground. Vampire T.11 for target towing.
Pic 56-5: The big boys-Lightning F.1a "Firebirds Display Team" rear. Lightning F.3 right. Lightning F.6 foreground.
Pic 56-6: Canberra B.2 for target towing at Akrotiri, Cyprus.

 

[Airframes]

Hi Vic. Brilliant collection of great models there mate! You've got me started now though - I've been trying every excuse not to get a Canberra, now it looks like I'll have to! I've been humming and harring whether or not to include the Spit, but, as you say, 56 did use them during a very important period, so yes, in it goes too! The ICM or Italeri kit I think.
Thanks for the info regarding the Gauntlet and Swift, I'll probably include at least the Swift now, and the info regarding the Meteors is very useful. Just one thing though, the info I have to date shows black code letters on the 'silver' Meteors, which is in line with similar markings on 'Meatbox's' from other squadrons - were white codes, as on your model, used during a specific period?
Sounds like the Airfix Tornado is as bad as I thought, I've been on the lookout for the Italeri F3, but it's nowhere to be had, but at least I can get the Airfix kit for half price. But, by the time I get around to the Tornado, there's a very good chance the Hobby Boss kit will have been released, so I might just wait and see what it's like.
If you need any detail and cockpit shots of the Tornado F3, let me know. I've got the excellent book by Ian Black (Tornado and Lightning pilot), chock full of superb colour pics, all pre-56 Sqn usage unfortunately, but useful for detail work.
I'd be interested to know which kits you used for the Bulldog and Gladiator. I'll be using the Inpact Gladiator kit, which is still good after more than 40 years, and possibly the Smer Bulldog (only £5 !!), although I've found a source for the Inpact Bulldog also, which is three times the price, but maybe worth it.
No doubt I'll be in touch during the course of my builds, if I need to check any details, particularly from 'your' era!
Thanks again for your help and interest.
Terry.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Your right Terry, the F.3 should have black markings, my slip up.8)
Thanks for the offer on the Tornado, they are at thr ready to spray stage now. I'll post them when done.

 

[Lucky13]

Great looking models Vic!

Well, at least I got the questions out of the way in one go, old boy!!

Well, I was expecting some sort of verbal abuse, "it's his fault for this and that, such and such"... I'm glad that I slipped through.
Just the ONE Canberra old chap? Need to find a Phantom for that camouflaged bird from No. 111, d*mn she's tasty!

 

[Airframes]

The best place is TAHS old boy, they've got both the RAF Phantoms, from the original Hasegawa issue, at around 22 of the Queens folding stuff. The one you need for that particular aircraft, is the FG1, advertised under the Hasegawa title of 'RAF Phantom Mk1'. Not sure if the kit has 111 Sqn decals; although it probably has, as only 111 and 43 used the FG1, but I'm sending them to you anyway, and it'll have the rest of the national markings etc.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Hi Terry and Lucky13
Be careful with the Canberra Terry, it's a very tail heavy model and will need a lot of nose weight, I almost got caught out even with the recommended weight, luckily I still had a hole to shove in more grapeshot.
I've had to rack my brains to remember the kits I used for the Bulldog and Gladiator. The Bulldog was most definitely in vacform with metal parts and was probably one of a few Aeroclub kits I purchased for the between wars theme and the Gladiator was one of the earlier Roden injection kits purchased in 2002.
You have also got me going on the Meteor F.Mk.3. and I now realise that it should be in camouflage and with an ON squadron code and from what I've been able to research, these are in a pale green colour. Can you concur before I try a bit of a respray job.
I also checked with our local Hobby Boss distributor on the Tornado ADV/F.3, they recon it will be some time before this comes our and have advised 2010 (sometime) deliver, and like you, all I can find are Airfix kits (yuk).
Talk to you chappies again soon.

 

[Airframes]

Thanks for the info Vic. I'd already 'sussed' the requirement for half a lead mine in the Canberra! I noticed it mentioned in a build, I think in a magazine, and passed on the info to Jan (Lucky), who is currently doing three of the Airfix 1/48th kits!
I'd forgotten that I'd seen profiles of the Canberras, one of which was a 'T' model, although I'd need to check which Trainer version, and the other, the target tug, I believe was a converted B2, but again I'd need to double check. The info I have is that they were both in overall silver.
I've managed to find the 'Inpact' kits for the Gladiator and Bulldog, both of which were also released under the Lindberg, Pyro and Lifelike labels, and the Smer Bulldog is also available. 'Inpact' kits were way ahead of their time when released in about 1966 or '67, if memory serves me. They stand up well to todays kits, and there's not much in it between the Inpact and Roden Gladiator in particular - a little extra work here and there, but nothing serious, and of course, there's a price difference!
I've also seen a 'future release' for a Siskin, from Aeroclub, which is injected I believe, and their Gauntlet is still available.
I've decided to include the Spit MkIX, and I'll eventually be using the ICM kit, which, from what I've seen, is the most accurate MkIX available, in any scale, and a very nice kit with lots of 'extras' if required, and options too.
Now, the Meteor F3.
First, if in camouflage colours, the code letters were still in 'Sky', so that should be straight forward. When first introduced to Squadron service, the F3's were in Grey/Green cam, as you know. But, as they were still in service with 56 up until September 1948, and the overall 'silver' scheme was in use then, I believe that the 'silver' finish would have been applied before they 'retired', and it's possible that both schemes could have been worn side by side, as happened with some other squadrons, particularly R.aux.A.F. squadrons. I have seen a pic or two of F3's from other units in the 'silver' finish, although I'll admit I don't have a date for these. The code letters were black, as previously discussed. Personally, I'm going to take the chance, and finish mine in the ' silver' scheme', and include the (very) small chekcs and phoenix on the nose, which I think was carried, as on the later F4's.
Shame the Hobby Boss Tornado F3 is going to be so long coming, but, I think I might have found an Italeri kit. Or more correctly, Jan has found one for me! Just waiting to see how the bidding goes on E-Bay - if it doesn't get too silly, then hopefully I might 'win' it.
So, either later today or maybe Saturday, I should recieve the kits for the Hunter, Tempest, and SE5a, so that's brought the 'stock' up to five so far - only eight or nine to go for my collection then!
Cheers for now mate.

 

[Airframes]

I've made a reasonable start on the Phantom, to change it from a 43 Sqn FG1 to the 56 Sqn FGR2. The small amount of re-painting required has been done, and I'm just waiting for the paint to settle, to see if it will eventually match the weathered, home'mixed 'Barley Grey' applied about four years ago! Once I get the 56 Sqn markings in place, and the few detail parts changed around, I'll post some pics.
Meanwhile, I've started collecting the required kits, as and when the budget, and availability, allows. I've already got the Lightning kit, and today I received the old Esci (Ertl) Tempest MkV and the Academy Hunter F6, both obtained at very good prices from King Kit, a specialist in out of production and rare kits. With many kits disappearing from the market for a few years, only to eventually re-emerge at much higher prices, it's a case of grab what you can, when you can, before some numpty of a speculator sticks them on E-Bay at stupid prices! Even the nice Academy Hunter looks like it's now discontinued, orf about to be, so I was pleased to get this one at less than the current retail price!
The Tempest, although generally accurate overall, is a very basic kit, and reminds me of an up-scaled old 'Frog' 1/72nd kit.The cockpit has a very strange 'seat' of sorts, and heel boards and a vague instrument panel - but no control column or gunsight! The canopy will probably need replacing, so I'll either mould a new one, or buy a vac-formed item, and it looks like I'll have to bite the bullet and get some resin wheels, as the kit items are totally plain, probably impossible to improve upon, and I haven't anything suitable in the spares box. Still, at least I managed to obtain a Tempest, which I thought was going to be a lot more difficult than it turned out. Only another 7 or 9 kits to go now to reach the required line-up!

 

[Airframes]

Work is progressing well, if a little slowly, on the Phantom. It's a bit tricky, as it's nearly impossible to handle safely, being fully built, and with all the underwing stores in place. I'm waiting until it's all finished before I post any pics, as I want to minimise the hanclling, just in case! (I actually dropped it when building it originally, and managed to get away with just breaking-off a stabilator, and one undercart leg!)
Jan very kindly monitored the Italeri Tornado F3 on e-Bay for me, which stayed at a reasonable £10 up until the end, then started to jump upwards to stupid prices! I'm not prepared to play that game, especially for a kit that had already been started on! So, I'll either have to use the dog of an Airfix kit, which I know can turn out to be a good model, but needs a lot of work (but, as I can get it for half-price, instead of the astronomical RRP of £25, I might go for it.), or it's wait until the Hobby Boss version is eventually released.
Meanwhile, the SE5A has arrived, this being the quaint 'Smer' kit. Apart from the roundels and other markings moulded into the parts (!), it's quite a nice little kit, and I think I can do something with it. It's basic, in the sense that what's required is all there, and the rest, in the way of detail or improvements, can be added from scratch - just the way I like things. And at under £5 for a 1/48th kit which appears to be more or less accurate, I can't complain.
So, once I complete the Avenger (and its base) for the PTO GB, and get the 1/32nd scale Spits and Hunter onto the shelves..oh, and start on the 1/32nd scale Beaufighter for the MTO GB (!!), then I can make a start on a complete build of one of the 56 Squadron kits. I'm not sure yet which one to begin with, having five kits already lined up, but I think it'll either be the Tempest, or the SE5A. Soon as I start, I'll post some pics!

 

[Lucky13]

I'm NOT gonna touch the Lightning, I'm NOT gonna touch the Lightning, I'm NOT gonna touch the Lightning, I'm NOT gonna touch the Lightning....

Need to go back to see what the No. 74 Squadron flew again, otherwise, I'm aiming for a Phantom!

 

[lesofprimus]

Great stuff here fellas, and very nice kits u got there Vic......

 

[Airframes]

Get yourself two Phantoms Jan! You could get an Italeri, Hasegawa or Monogram F4J for the 74 Sqn F4J(UK) version, and the Hasegawa FGR2, as discussed, for your 111 Sqn bird. Get it done, and leave that Lightning alone - until you have the time to do it justice!

 

[Lucky13]

Thinking a later mold of the Hasegawa for the 74 Phantom, resessed lines, and the FGR2 for the 111 lassie...

 

[Airframes]

Sounds good. I think I saw a Hasegawa F4J at a good price at TAHS also, or the Italeri one is OK, with recessed lines too. Overall though - Hasegawa!
BTW, for the 111 Sqn bird you want to do, it's the FG1, not the FGR2, although the latter could be used with minor modifications.

 

[Vic Balshaw]

Shame about the eBay Terry, I was down in Melbourne when the bidding closed and was surprised to see how much it went for when I got back yesterday. Thought I might have tracked a source for the F3 in the US, but sadly no such luck.
Like the SE 5a kit, think it was the same one I have done, looks familiar. Have decked mine out with tail B4863, the mount of Captain McCudden over Ypres in Autumn of 1917. Details from picture in "High in the Empty Blue".