P-39 n-0 vs yak 9

[Shortround6]

i asked because the were equal in war thunder an i wanted to know in real life if they were equal

According to one book the Yak-9 went through 22 variations, 15 of which made it into production. There were 5 different power plants, six different fuel tank set ups with varying capacity and 7 armament variations and two special equipment's. Granted it took from Oct 1942 (first production) to Dec of 1948 to get all those variations in so a large number can be discarded when comparing to the P-39N-0 (Or 1?)

The Yak-9 went into service several months earlier than the P-39N with the Russians.
One book claims only 500 of the original Yak-9s were built. The Yak-9T with the 37mm gun entered production in March of 1943 (3 built) but April saw much larger numbers.
Development of the Yak-9D began in Jan of 1943 and about 100 were assembled in the Spring of 1943. The 9D held 210 liters more fuel than the early Yak-9.
The Russians tended to mix 9s, 9Ts and 9Ds in the same units at first which meant the extra range/endurance of the 9D was not used and the extra weight of the fuel only hurt performance.

So in War thunder do we have a P-39 with 87 gallons or with 120 gallons and are we to compare it to a Yak-9 with 96 gallons or onw with 142 gallons internal?

 

[pops-paolo]

According to one book the Yak-9 went through 22 variations, 15 of which made it into production. There were 5 different power plants, six different fuel tank set ups with varying capacity and 7 armament variations and two special equipment's. Granted it took from Oct 1942 (first production) to Dec of 1948 to get all those variations in so a large number can be discarded when comparing to the P-39N-0 (Or 1?)

The Yak-9 went into service several months earlier than the P-39N with the Russians.
One book claims only 500 of the original Yak-9s were built. The Yak-9T with the 37mm gun entered production in March of 1943 (3 built) but April saw much larger numbers.
Development of the Yak-9D began in Jan of 1943 and about 100 were assembled in the Spring of 1943. The 9D held 210 liters more fuel than the early Yak-9.
The Russians tended to mix 9s, 9Ts and 9Ds in the same units at first which meant the extra range/endurance of the 9D was not used and the extra weight of the fuel only hurt performance.

So in War thunder do we have a P-39 with 87 gallons or with 120 gallons and are we to compare it to a Yak-9 with 96 gallons or onw with 142 gallons internal?

bro i was jus askin about which ones were better in real life

 

[FLYBOYJ]

bro i was jus askin about which ones were better in real life

And wrap your head around the fact that you're not going to get a direct answer when you're dealing with a simplistic video game. These are variables that went into R-E-A-L aircraft!!!

 

[pops-paolo]

So?! Do you have adverse yaw with an engine out on the SM.79? How much rudder to you have to input on take off with the 109?

yes there is
also i normally take off on a guess of a 15-degree angle so i don't know

 

[FLYBOYJ]

yes there is
also i normally take off on a guess of a 15-degree angle so i don't know

Guess?!?! You guess in a real airplane, let along a combat aircraft and you die very quickly!!!!

 

[pbehn]

bro they do it so i-16s don't go against bf109s to make the games more competitive and keeps you on the edge of your seat since you aren't in the middle of a combat situation also the matchups are pretty historical (obviously not entirely)

In the Battle of Britain which was the first conflict conducted solely in the air up to 90% of those shot down didnt see who shot them down, in furball engagements where a lot of aircraft were involved up to 10% of kills were probably friendly fire or stray bullets and at the same time on both sides around 10% of aircraft lost were due to accidents. That is reality, but in terms of a commercial game, not profitable and so not realistic. Edit .. The whole battle was about "getting a bounce" the British were using RADAR and the Germans were using bombers as bait, it was about shooting your opponent in the back.

 

[pops-paolo]

Guess?!?! You guess in a real airplane, let along a combat aircraft and you die very quickly!!!!

that might explain why i suck with that plane I'm always slow probably from climbing a too steep of an angle and never get high enough plus when i realise to raise my flaps its too late
i like to stick to my c.200 now that plane i am nice in
also i have better moral flying that plane

 

[pbehn]

Guess?!?! You guess in a real airplane, let along a combat aircraft and you die very quickly!!!!

Its always inspiring when the pilot of the aircraft you are on says "I guess we will get there, most other planes have".

 

[Shortround6]

bro i was jus askin about which ones were better in real life

Trying to point out that even in a few months in late spring of 1943 you could have P-39Ns with two different fuel capacities vs Yak-9s with two different armament set ups and two different fuel capacities, the different fuel capacities will affect performance (not speed but climb and turn) depending on fuel state. I don't know which one/s War Thunder is using.

Please don't say P-39N-0 again. The first 120 P-39Ns had 120 gallons and the following ones had 87 gallons although kits were supplied to bring the tankage back up to 120 gallons.
How many kits the Russians got I don't know. Obviously in real life having an extra 33 gallons of Fuel in your P-39 allowed for it to do different missions just like the Russians found that the 9D could perform missions the "regular" 9 could not, the Yak-1, Yak-7B and La-5 also did not have the range/endurance of the Yak-9D. The extra range/endurance came with the weight penalty.

SO which "versions" is war thunder using?
The short range ones or the long range?

The Yaks used a single 12.7mm machine gun in the cowl but it had a much better rate of fire than the American .50s in the P-39 when synchronized so the difference in firepower there is not that far off as long as the ammo lasts.

The Russian 37mm gun fired 66% faster 250rpm vs 150rpm for a considerable advantage in firepower. It fired a similar weight projectile at a much higher velocity (900m/s vs about 610m/s) making deflection shooting easier and with the two guns in the Yak having similar velocities, trajectories and times of flight aiming at anything other than point blank range was easier.

So what are the armament setups in the planes in war thunder and does war thunder even take into account the differences in rates of fire or velocity?

 

[Shortround6]

that might explain why i suck with that plane I'm always slow probably from climbing a too steep of an angle and never get high enough plus when i realise to raise my flaps its too late
i like to stick to my c.200 now that plane i am nice in
also i have better moral flying that plane

Raise your flaps about the same time you raise the landing gear.
I am not a pilot but leaving the flaps down does NOT increase your rate of climb.

edit. Climb angle is not proportional to rate of climb.

 

[special ed]

If you find yourself in a fair fight, you've done something wrong.

 

[Shortround6]

If you find yourself in a fair fight, you've done something wrong.

As I tell the young whippersnappers at work

"Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill every time"

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

What on earth is a fair fight? No one on any side in WW2 was interested in a fair fight, from the first days of air combat the idea was to shoot your opponent in the back or just blow him out of the sky.

lol its the participation trophy generation aka gamer thing to do. Remember these games are so realistic though...lol

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

yes there is
also i normally take off on a guess of a 15-degree angle so i don't know

What a minute, you actually leave the ground?

 

[Shortround6]

What a minute, you actually leave the ground?

18in sub woofer under the gaming chair, 200 watt amp

 

[GrauGeist]

that might explain why i suck with that plane I'm always slow probably from climbing a too steep of an angle and never get high enough plus when i realise to raise my flaps its too late
i like to stick to my c.200 now that plane i am nice in
also i have better moral flying that plane

If you're running a sim that has "full switch" settings, then simply throwing the throttle forward and pulling back on the stick will not work.
There's fuel mix, prop pitch, flap settings and such, that all need to be adjusted.
Too much throttle on take-off is also not going to help much if everything isn't adjusted properly.
And unless you're an F-15 with the candles lit, you don't pull up hard once you get airborn.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

it is done for balancing so they can make the models as historical as they can and still have a fair fight

War doesn't care about a fair fight. That's the difference between sims and reality. Reality doesn't really care about return customers.

 

[wuzak]

The Yak-9 was used in Korea. The P-39 was notable in its absence. I think that speaks to Soviet opinions on the two planes.

The P-39 was delivered under Lend-Lease, the rules of which would require the Soviets to return or destroy those aircraft.

Not that it was beyond Soviets to disregard contracts like that.


Also, I don't believe that the FAA had Corsairs for Korea, despite receiving many during WW2, because of Lend-Lease.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

"It was the kind of target that fighter pilots dream about. Parked in two rows were about 20 aircraft of the P-39 or P-63 type. Thousands of them were built and flown by Americans in World War II, and some were sent to our Soviet ally. Those below us had large red stars surrounded by a narrow white border painted on the side of their dark brown fuselages."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-russia/0fe9d000-9796-4c6c-9df4-77a956bf5e96/

Two uncertainties bothered me. First, P-39 type aircraft had never been seen before in North Korea, and secondly, I was not certain where we were. Our target was an airfield at Chongjin on the far northeast coast of the Korean Peninsula, some 430 miles north-northeast of our base at Taegu Air Field in South Korea and only 40 miles south of the Chinese border and 60 miles southwest of the Soviet border. The airfield below didn't match the description of the one at Chongjin, which was reported to have a hard surface.

But I did not hesitate. We went in for the attack.

 

[Marcel]

Sorry guys, I find it a bit cheap to start bitching on flight sims. Pops here likes to play flight sims and there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I used to play IL2 and MS Flightsim all the time back in the day. And when I was allowed to fly a real Cessna 172 for the first time, my instructor said he could notice I played flight sims as I was much kinder on the yoke compared to most other first timers and I wasn't compensating every little movement the aircraft made just to keep it straight and level. So apparently the sim taught me something even though it's not fully realistic.

And I think the question is perfectly valid. He noticed that the P39 and the Yak9 are of similar performance in the game so he's wondering how accurate this projection is in the real world. Sounds reasonable to me, he shows that he does understand these sims are not accurate and is curious what the real life situation could have been.

But I'll keep an eye on the thread because it's another P39 thread again and the last dozen or so about that subject went south very quickly. Pray it doesn't happen here