Marshall_Stack
Senior Airman
Which aircraft would you rather fly, the P-51D Mustang or the F-82B Twin Mustang? Both aircraft would have the Merlin engines.
P-51 VS P-82
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syscom3
Pacific Historian
P51 for me.
glennasher
Senior Airman
P-82s had Allisons, IIRC, they switched back to Allisons after the war, all the later Mustangs had 'em (Post Ds and Ks).
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Marshall_Stack
Senior Airman
From what I read, the F-82B had the Merlin, the F-82C the Allison. They wanted to use the Merlin but would have to pay hefty license fees.
I would like the F-82 for the long missions, night fighting, or bad weather flying (misery loves company).
It just seems like it would be a strange bird to fly since you are off the center of the airplane.
drgondog
Major
The P-82E/F/G were the only Mustang Variants built with the Allison 1710-143/145.. The XP-82 had the Packard Merlin1650-11. The P-82 A/B/C/D had the Packard 1650-9A which was slated for the P-51M.. The P-51L was never built but it was the H with the improved 1650-11 engine.
The last D's were cancelled on VJ Day and only 555 H's were built - all with 1650-9's until it stopped in November 1945.
I would have preferred the P-82 to the P-61 as a night fighter and it did replace the P-61 in the 1948 timeframe for that role.. but would have preferred the 51H for escort
In January 1944 the USAAF ordered four experimental XP-82's. Although all four planes were originally to be Allison powered, plans changed so the first two, now designated XP-82A and using the V-1710-119, with the second two designated XP-82B and using Packard Merlin V-1650-23/25. While the P-82A was cancelled when the war ended, work on the P-82B continued with the Merlin-powered plane's first flight in October 1945. Although no P-82As were built 500 P-82Bs were ordered in June 1944. The end of the war caused production to be cut. Twenty production airplanes were built in early 1946 using Merlin engines previously purchased for the purpose. Production of Merlin's ceased at the end of the war, so when the Air Corp ordered 250 additional planes it was determined that they would be powered by the Allison V-1710-143/145 and originally specified by Allison specification V-1710-F36R/L but evolving to revised specification V-1710-G6R/L. The order was split between two groups – the first group of 100 planes were P-82E escort fighters for use by Strategic Air Command
to escort bombers, and remaining 150 were designated P-82F all-weather radar equipped
interceptors/night fighters. The last 59 all-weather interceptors were actually delivered
as P-82Gs. These planes entered air-defence service in the spring of 1948 and were
based on both the east and west coasts of the United States, Alaska, and Japan.
XP-82 2
XP-82A 1
P-82B 20
P-82C 1 (transformed P-82B)
P-82D 1 (transformed P-82B)
P-82E 100 escort fighter
P-82F 91 night fighter
P-82G 45 night fighter
P-82H 14 9 P-82F and 5 P-82G modified for Alaska
So out of the total production only around twenty had Merlin engines.
to escort bombers, and remaining 150 were designated P-82F all-weather radar equipped
interceptors/night fighters. The last 59 all-weather interceptors were actually delivered
as P-82Gs. These planes entered air-defence service in the spring of 1948 and were
based on both the east and west coasts of the United States, Alaska, and Japan.
XP-82 2
XP-82A 1
P-82B 20
P-82C 1 (transformed P-82B)
P-82D 1 (transformed P-82B)
P-82E 100 escort fighter
P-82F 91 night fighter
P-82G 45 night fighter
P-82H 14 9 P-82F and 5 P-82G modified for Alaska
So out of the total production only around twenty had Merlin engines.
drgondog
Major
Our sources seem to differ materially only on one point - the existance of the XP82A with Allison engine.
Gruenhagen has two XP-82s with subsequent production versions of B,C,D of Packard Merlin driven engines... the primary difference in the two XP-82s were defined as one with the 1650-11/21 conter rotation prop opposite the 1650-11, the other had two 1650-11's - all remaining 250 beyond the D included Allison driven E/F/G/H models.
I've only found two errors in his work so this could be another - in which one of the XP-82's was re-engined with the Allison and re-designated as the P-82A? but that would still leave one total 'built' unit that he doesn't account for.
Does your source have the N serial number or Charge Number of the P-82A?
I do note that there is an interrupted serial number sequence between the 2 XP-82 and the first P-82B but that would leave two unaccounted for as well as two NA Charge Numbers between the XP-82 (NA120)and P-82B(NA123).
NA122 was the P-51D-20, 25 and 30 series built in California... so I'm missing one North American internal chrge number to account for
Regards,
Bill
Soundbreaker Welch?
Tech Sergeant
I wonder how easy it was to do rolls in it?
glennasher
Senior Airman
Learn something new every day! The book I bought at the AF Museum in Dayton had said that all the post war Mustangs used Allisons, and that's what I was going by. It's been some time since I saw that book, I loaned it to someone................
drgondog
Major
Is the NA121 a guess or does your source identify tht as converting XP-82 44-83887 to P-82A?
Thanks, Bill
drgondog
Major
For all practical purposes they were right as only the first 10% were Merlin based and all the subsequent production run were Allisons. As an aside, The P-82 used many P-51H parts - the P-51H used only a couple of P-51D parts.
The very best book with few mistakes is Gruenhagens book "Mustang-The story of the P-51"
