P.M. Thatcher

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I don't think she will be remembered as one of our great leaders. She was just too divisive.

There were plenty of well deserved tributes to her,even as someone who was not a fan of her politics I can say that. Unfortunately for her legacy these were tempered with the "other side". I don't mean petty issues like the withdrawal of free school milk (I'm old enough to remember those little 1/3 pint bottles at morning break!) but her seriously divisive policies. Unemployment driven through the roof,the decimation of Britain's industrial heartlands,poll tax (which disenfranchised many) the miners' strike,the Liverpool dockers' strike, the end of shipbuilding on the Clyde......how long have we got?

Cut backs.....only the Falklands saved the Navy. If the Argentinians had waited one more year they'd have got away with it. When HMS Endurance was to be withdrawn as part of the 1981 Defence Review, Argentina jumped the gun,luckily for us.

There may have been Porsche driving yuppies with mobile bricks making money in the City,but for most it was a grim time.

I remember her calling the ANC/Nelson Mandela terrorists. She may have had a point from the point of view of South Africa's apartheid regime,but at the time it was bound to antagonise many here and even more in Europe.

Despite all that she does have my respect. She was honest and she took responsibility for her actions. That's something our current generation of spineless,lily livered,expense account fiddling,politicians could learn from.

On a lighter note

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=bd7_1365439362

Cheers

Steve
 
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I was in England when she was the PM. I avoid political discourse like the plague as I have seen too many friendships lost because of those kinds of discussions. I had a lot of respect for her, she was a tough bird and stubborn in the best of UK traditions. (You are a stubborn lot, one need only look at London during the Blitz to see that.)

RIP :salute:
 
.. I must admit like Steve, I didn't appreciate her much at the time, but with distance and age comes a bit of wisdom. I can see now that Britain's " industrial heartlands " were decimated by a whole host of inefficient practises and vested interests, not Thatcher; have you forgotten British Leyland and 'Red Robbo', the 3-day week etc etc ..not to mention Scargill and all the others that she took on and defeated, at some cost admittedly. When she came to power the UK was utterly shot, bankrupt and in hoc to the IMF. Credit to her for putting the focus on the individual and individual responsibility...under Thatcher anyone could be a trader in the market, get on and make something of themselves, .
 
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All the above is true. I'm not a trade unionist and only a fool would argue that their power did not need some kind of curtailment. I moved to Birmingham in the late seventies and remember Red Robbo and the Leyland saga very well. I sometimes work today at a company based at Longbridge,on the edge of the old Leyland,latterly Rover,site. It's an industrial wasteland. All the buildings have been cleared,just leaving the concrete rafts they were built on. There are many,many acres of that.

The under investment in British industry and the apathy and complacency of management was not the fault of the unions.

Some will praise Thatcher's short sharp shock treatment,leading to the demise of those industries,others might feel that there were other ways of addressing the undoubtedly serious problems.

There are a lot of people today arguing that the deregulation of the financial sector,instigated by Thatcher,led directly to the mess we are in today following the financial collapse. Anybody could be a trader in the market,get on and make something of themselves,but they could also lose billions.

At least she caused me to be made redundant from my original career. It was no fun at the time,but with the benefit of thirty something years of hindsight she did me a favour :)

Cheers

Steve
 
"... with the benefit of thirty something years of hindsight she did me a favor "

She did the Argies a huge favor, too. Had the Junta "pulled off" the Falklands aggression - they would have been empowered. More fascism, more disappearances. In defeat the Junta was defeated and democracy (of sorts) was returned to Argentina. The fools taking to the streets there have no idea .....

MM
 
stona said:
She was certainly divisive! Like Marmite,you loved her or hated her. There were parties last night in Brixton,Glasgow and other places.I remember only too well the poll tax riots,miners' strikes etc.

There were people chanting a new version of the old "Maggie,Maggie,Maggie,out,out,out." "Maggie,Maggie,Maggie,dead,dead,dead." Not particularly clever but it shows how deep the rancour still is in some communities after so long.

Personally I couldn't stand her or anything she stood for.

I will not however celebrate her passing,she was someone's wife and mother too. I had my celebration when she was stabbed in the back by her own party and forced out of Downing Street. I was at work when someone announced that they had just heard that she had resigned. There was a loud and spontaneous cheer from everyone present,very bizarre.

Cheers

Steve
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Steve,
I couldn't agree more. I also cannot stand Thatcher and I will always hold her responsible for bringing this country to the brink of civil war and the destruction of British industry.
Time has coloured people's view on her reign and I will not be watching the funeral or celebrating next week.
I rather suspect that a new generation, who detest Blair will be having a similar conversation when he dies.
Cheers
John
 
I heard on the radio today that before she got into politics she was a chemist and was on the team that helped develope soft servce ice cream.

Found that pretty interesting.
 
vikingBerserker said:
I heard on the radio today that before she got into politics she was a chemist and was on the team that helped develope soft servce ice cream.
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I used to be a chemist,but she did for that! Don't tar us all with the same brush :)

The number of people unemployed during her premiership increased by a factor of three. I was lucky and found something else to do. I've worked for myself ever since,many others were not so lucky.

She oversaw two recessions and unemployment was close to 12% in early 1984.

She is often credited with creating wealth but GDP never grew by more than 2% in her time. She created a wealthy few and increased the gap between the haves and have nots,mainly be increasing the numbers of the latter.

Despite being our first female PM the pay gap between men and women got bigger,worse for women,during her tenure.

Interest rates rose to record values,peaking at around 17%.

Under Thatcher poverty (defined as families living below 60% of median incomes) rose from 13.4% to 22.2% of the population.

Is it any wonder that her legacy is far from clear?

Cheers

Steve
 
Njaco said:
I heard on the radio yesterday that it was 21% in one year.............?
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I don't know what that was but it wasn't GDP.

April 1980 saw inflation rise to 21.8%. It fell to 9.7% by the time she was ousted (Nov 1990) but then noone had any money to spend.

I will not disrespect the dead,no matter what I thought of her,but I doubt many will be so restrained when her funeral is held next Wednesday. I bet there will be plenty of demonstrations.

Cheers

Steve
 
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the late 70s, early 80s were tough times. here in the us prior to 1980 inflation, unemployment, and interest rates were all double digits. it was very tenuous. i am sure that spilled over and had effects in counties. i had a lot of respect for the lady who took bull by the horns....
 
In some areas of the UK, there were some spurr of the moment street parties celebrating her passing... I can't say I blame them although she was certainly no Chauchescu style/type leader to warrent them.

Mind due I was a nipper/a kid/knee high to a grasshopper in the 80's so I only really paid attention to her in the '91 Gulf War, and by that point aging was starting to catch upto her as the senior tory advisor/ex-leader to John 'Curry' Major.
She did cancel my junior/primary school milk ration, but she did ride the 'Top Gun' 80's for us; better that than possbly ending up continuing to have 'workers union culture' drop strikes left, right and center onwards upto the 90's/0's

RIP Maggie.

The iron lady has gone, her rivets popped, like the unions she stopped, like marmite, we knew her one way (or another) ..hers.
 
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Did anyone else used to walk around the playground shaking that little bottle of free milk to make butter milk and,well,butter? I know I did!

The break was 15minutes and you could do it in about 10 minutes.

Milk Snatcher Thatcher!

Cheers
Steve
 
stona said:
Did anyone else used to walk around the playground shaking that little bottle of free milk to make butter milk and,well,butter? I know I did!

The break was 15minutes and you could do it in about 10 minutes.

Milk Snatcher Thatcher!

Cheers
Steve
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That'll be me Steve, full fat warm milk. Loved it.
I really can't say any more about Thatcher as it will too political for this forum.
Even after all these years the very sight of her makes my blood boil.
 
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