P51D/K vs Me109K-14

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 2, 2006

Agreed

pathchampion · Jul 6, 2006

I would bet all my money on the BF Messersmitt 109 K-4 Kurfurst, because of the all-great fly ability, and its strong arment, (2x 13mm. MG 131 mountet on the engine top, and 1x 30mm. canon MK 108 shooting out of the propeller hub) and here's some data so you can judge for yourselfs Max. Speed: 727km/h with Manthol/Water mixture enable, and 6000 ft. altitude, Cruise Speed: 590km/h, Ceiling: 12,500 m, Combat radious: 210 km, Fuel capacity: 400 l. Wing area: 16.05 sq.meters, Horse power: 1550 hp. so go, judge for yourself

loomaluftwaffe · Jul 6, 2006

at least ur better than those noobs who make only 1 post of 'The Mustang was rated the Best fighter of all time!!!"

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 6, 2006

pathchampion said:
I would bet all my money on the BF Messersmitt 109 K-4 Kurfurst, because of the all-great fly ability, and its strong arment, (2x 13mm. MG 131 mountet on the engine top, and 1x 30mm. canon MK 108 shooting out of the propeller hub) and here's some data so you can judge for yourselfs Max. Speed: 727km/h with Manthol/Water mixture enable, and 6000 ft. altitude, Cruise Speed: 590km/h, Ceiling: 12,500 m, Combat radious: 210 km, Fuel capacity: 400 l. Wing area: 16.05 sq.meters, Horse power: 1550 hp. so go, judge for yourself

While I agree with you on the Bf-109K one on one vs a P-51D you also have to remember though that the Bf-109K lost some of its great flying characteristics as it got faster but heavier (not as much as some people like to make it be, but it did). Now having said that, I voted for the Bf-109K as well.

Glider · Jul 6, 2006

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
Well the speed of the Bf-109K and the P-51D were very similar and the P-51D was not as maneuverable as everyone thinks.

But as I understand it the 109 was better at slower speeds, less than 250, about equal up to 350 but a lot worse above 350.
Seen as these planes are built for speed, the edge would be on the P51.

davparlr · Jul 7, 2006

Erich said:
the 109K was going to be phased out and replaced in time either with jets or the Ta 152 which could bust 500mph ............. yep ! so to compare a non-combat operative K-14 with the WW 2 present D and K of the P-51 is a bit silly as the posting of the same accord that I have replied to with more what if answers on the axishistory.forums.com

I could not find any reference that said the Ta 152 was capable of 500 mph. The fastest I could find was 472 mph, which is 15 mph slower than the P-51H, which was built in much larger numbers.

Erich · Jul 7, 2006

the P-51H was not operational in the ETO. mph according to vets of JG 301, you will not even find it written in the war diary by W. Reschke. this may have been in a dive ? but would assume the craft could plunge like a rock doing well over the 500 mile mark. Sadly so very little written about the bird except it was a rocket in the hands of the pilots. Reschke claims he did over 750km per hour several times while in III. and Stab./JG 301 not in a dive but at quite the altitude

~ preview: I have a very strong interest in JG 301 as I had a cousin serve in 5./JG 301 during the fall of 44 before he was shot dwon KIA south of Misburg

v/r E

lesofprimus · Jul 7, 2006

Hey Erich, is he mentioned in Lorants/Goyats book??

Erich · Jul 7, 2006

no he is not as that is ALL JG 300, books and web-sites are incorrect, W. Reshcke served in JG 302 first then a transfer into JG 301 for the remainder of the war, funny though he is the rep for all three former Wilde Sau Geschwaden.

My cousin went to flying school for some weeks and then immeidately into II./JG 301 in September of 44, he had two missions, 21st and 26 November in his white 2 Fw 190 A-9 possibly an R11, then shot down and killed.

lesofprimus · Jul 7, 2006

The training those kids got was so inadequate prior to joining an active Staffel, its sad.... Reading the III./JG 54 Green Hearts book, its amazing any of them survived....

Only the luck of bad weather kept most of them alive... Hats off to ur cousin, once again, who did his duty the only way he knew how...

syscom3 · Jul 7, 2006

That USSBS survey about the bombing of the refineries said that NO av gas was made available for training flights after Nov 1944.

I dont know if thats an exaggeration, but its indicative on how desperate the fuel situation had become.

lesofprimus · Jul 7, 2006

Some pilots just arriving had as little as 15 hours of stick time, with only the basic rudementary flying formations....

Gnomey · Jul 7, 2006

During the Battle of Britain pilots where going to squadrons with as little as 7-8 hours on Spitfires/Hurricanes generally though it was around 10-12.

loomaluftwaffe · Jul 7, 2006

lucky them, some kids got to familiarize themselves for 20 mins in a He-162 then thrown into combat

Soundbreaker Welch? · Jul 8, 2006

How long will this one last -- two, three weeks?"

And untrained British Pilots proved him wrong.

AngelC · Jul 8, 2006

mosquitoman said:
War speeds up all technology: 500 years of war in Italy produces Michaelangelo, Raphael, Da Vinci, Donatello etc. 500 years of peace in Switzerland produces what? The cuckoo clock

Is true but 1000years of war in Germany -Italy produces Adol Hitler , Benito Musolini and others

davparlr · Jul 8, 2006

Erich said:
the P-51H was not operational in the ETO. mph according to vets of JG 301, you will not even find it written in the war diary by W. Reschke. this may have been in a dive ? but would assume the craft could plunge like a rock doing well over the 500 mile mark. Sadly so very little written about the bird except it was a rocket in the hands of the pilots. Reschke claims he did over 750km per hour several times while in III. and Stab./JG 301 not in a dive but at quite the altitude

~ preview: I have a very strong interest in JG 301 as I had a cousin serve in 5./JG 301 during the fall of 44 before he was shot dwon KIA south of Misburg

v/r E

Not a lot of info on the Ta-152. Apparently they came out when Germany was struggling with their industries and work force. I think the Ta-152 never really had a chance to work out the bugs. From what I have read, the H was grounded when the war ended.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 9, 2006

Glider said:
But as I understand it the 109 was better at slower speeds, less than 250, about equal up to 350 but a lot worse above 350.
Seen as these planes are built for speed, the edge would be on the P51.

Are you talking about mph or kmh.

These aircraft would not be travelling at top speeds in a fight against each other more than likely anyhow. They would not be flying faster than 300mph to 350mph in fight. The only way they would meet each other at speeds higher than that is if one pounces the other from a higher alltitude, so that does not really make an advantage for either one.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 9, 2006

AngelC said:
Is true but 1000years of war in Germany -Italy produces Adol Hitler , Benito Musolini and others

That was a dumb comment.

Erich · Jul 9, 2006

there is more info on the Ta 152 and the operational H model than one knows, the H-0 and H-1 were the operational crates for III./JG 301 and the Geschwader Stab of JG 301. there are several books covering the craft more from a tech standpoint than operational though that is in the works last heard ....

P51D/K vs Me109K-14

Which would win?

Kurfurst

Mustang

Draw

Impossible to say

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