How would more organisations being involved answer the question of the value? What price would you put on knowing every detail of an F-22 or F-35?
P51D schematics
- Thread starter Aldha_wolf
- Start date
m13katyusa2020
Senior Airman
- 472
- Mar 26, 2022
The organization could pay for F-22 and F-35's value, by paying every scientist, engineer, and worker salary, who's working for F-22 or F-35, representing everyone who wants freedom.
And of course all the other competing designs and future designs, you have just taken over the whole worlds military research spending.
m13katyusa2020
Senior Airman
- 472
- Mar 26, 2022
That's why I said it was not enough to make things better just depending on one national organization, it could only achieved by the majority of people who contributes to a more freedom world.
I dont think a thread has ever gone so far off topic so quickly. Can I have some aircraft drawings? Here's my plan for a better world.
marianmadalin32
Airman
- 13
- Dec 18, 2017
Still interested ?Might be able to provide you some drawings for free ! Doing it without a personal interest. Please reply !
fubar57
General
marianmadalin32 He hasn't been here for 4 years. Try sending him a PM and he might pic it up in his email.
GregP
Major
Here' one I did ...
I think it is a picture ...
Oops, the border at top left has one box at the wrong layer. Damn! I thought this was good! Ah well, not worth the time to repost for a box. At least the rivets showed up!
drgondog
Major
Of course rivets should not be visible from LE aft to 40% chord. WD should b in front of ntional insignia. USAF red stripe in the 'bar' not in existance in ETO
GregP
Major
Thanks Bill! Got that scheme from a picture I found. Pic was from the right side, but I drew left side and made an assumption. You know about assumptions ...
Fixed on my source file, well ... the letters, anyway.
The P-51s I have seen that are polished show rivets all the way forward on the wing, but I take your word they weren't visible from the factory. I assume smooth putty that gets sanded off if you polish the aluminum ( another assumption?). Rivets not especially visible on the P-51s I have seen with painted wings, but I never really looked that hard for them since I knew they were there. Might BE visible on most of today's P-51s since almost all have seen some restoration that tends to remove putty. I have seen one or two unrestored P-51s and didn't look at the wing rivets. I was much more interested in the cockpit instruments and the general condition and placards / stencils.
Will go look in the near future ... AFTER vacation ...heading out for a fun trip.
Fixed on my source file, well ... the letters, anyway.
The P-51s I have seen that are polished show rivets all the way forward on the wing, but I take your word they weren't visible from the factory. I assume smooth putty that gets sanded off if you polish the aluminum ( another assumption?). Rivets not especially visible on the P-51s I have seen with painted wings, but I never really looked that hard for them since I knew they were there. Might BE visible on most of today's P-51s since almost all have seen some restoration that tends to remove putty. I have seen one or two unrestored P-51s and didn't look at the wing rivets. I was much more interested in the cockpit instruments and the general condition and placards / stencils.
Will go look in the near future ... AFTER vacation ...heading out for a fun trip.
drgondog
Major
Every wing that emeged fom Inglewood and Dallas P-51s - even NMF - were so treated. In case of NMF the putty/sand/primer was finished wth silver paint. I wonder if there is a warbird flying that retains factory finish.Thanks Bill! Got that scheme from a picture I found. Pic was from the right side, but I drew left side and made an assumption. You know about assumptions ...
Fixed on my source file, well ... the letters, anyway.
The P-51s I have seen that are polished show rivets all the way forward on the wing, but I take your word they weren't visible from the factory. I assume smooth putty that gets sanded off if you polish the aluminum ( another assumption?). Rivets not especially visible on the P-51s I have seen with painted wings, but I never really looked that hard for them since I knew they were there. Might BE visible on most of today's P-51s since almost all have seen some restoration that tends to remove putty. I have seen one or two unrestored P-51s and didn't look at the wing rivets. I was much more interested in the cockpit instruments and the general condition and placards / stencils.
Will go look in the near future ... AFTER vacation ...heading out for a fun trip.
You might ask Steve H what he did to Voodoo.
The practice was initiated in the NA-73 to minimize friction drag from LE to max T/C.
GregP
Major
I KNOW they used putty on the wing for Voodoo, but I they also "profiled" it ... that is, changed the airfoil a bit. I never asked to what and Steve never volunteered it, as you might expect. If he had, I couldn't talk about the details anyway, especially in public forum.
The speed record wing has profile changes that aren't exactly evident to the casual observer, but the basic wing structure is quite stock. Many other things are not anywhere NEAR stock, as expected. All in all, there are thousands of tiny details that are changed, adding up to a vastly different aircraft from a stock P-51D. Everything from gap seals to sealing the entire fuselage to prevent air from entering and exiting. Much more. It does NOT fly like a P-51D, at all.
A stock P-51D is out of nose down trim at 480 mph. Voodoo isn't, even at 500 mph. It also flies very differently from a stock P-51D around the pattern since good low-speed behavior was not one of the primary concerns when preparing Voodoo. It's not a killer, but also isn't friendly to someone not paying attention to it.
The speed record wing has profile changes that aren't exactly evident to the casual observer, but the basic wing structure is quite stock. Many other things are not anywhere NEAR stock, as expected. All in all, there are thousands of tiny details that are changed, adding up to a vastly different aircraft from a stock P-51D. Everything from gap seals to sealing the entire fuselage to prevent air from entering and exiting. Much more. It does NOT fly like a P-51D, at all.
A stock P-51D is out of nose down trim at 480 mph. Voodoo isn't, even at 500 mph. It also flies very differently from a stock P-51D around the pattern since good low-speed behavior was not one of the primary concerns when preparing Voodoo. It's not a killer, but also isn't friendly to someone not paying attention to it.
BarnOwlLover
Staff Sergeant
I know that this has likely been mentioned, but is it correct to say that AirCorps Library a treasure trove for such info on all P-51 and P-82 variants? Just seeing on image here, all I can say as someone who's probably younger than when those documents got saved from almost certain destruction, was the management at Rockwell International on something--like drugs?
At least AirCorps and Boeing are preserving what Rockwell didn't rid themselves of, often forever sadly.
drgondog
Major
Although Ester Laube seems certain that some XP-51F drawings are in-house, there are few P-51H and no P-82 drawings nut they have an excellent collection of P-51 drawings.
The Rockwall accountants (like Fairchild when they acquired Republic) were soul-less penny pinchers and disposed of all documents not required for current operations or federal Government. The drawings and Fiche were stored at Stone Mountain.
BarnOwlLover
Staff Sergeant
Don't know how to emote both happiness and sadness on here at the same time...
special ed
1st Lieutenant
- 7,074
- May 13, 2018
Similar, when I tried to find a color shot of Grumman TB3F-1 prototype. Shuttled all over Grumman depts until a woman in archives said, "Oh, we threw all that out."
BarnOwlLover
Staff Sergeant
Not related to the D model, but AirCorps Library does have drawings and illustrations (quite a few, actually) related to the NA73X (Mustang prototype) and NA105 (XP-51F/G/J) series. However, they (for sure the lightweight P-51 materials) haven't been digitized yet, so currently the only way to see them is visit AirCorps' facility in MN in person. That's info I got from them earlier today.
cvairwerks
Staff Sergeant
In an email from Ester, back in October, she said the library had moved to a facility in Montana. Someone at AC confused, or have they not moved all the drawings and file yet?
BarnOwlLover
Staff Sergeant
It also seems that the Ken Jungeberg Collection does have a lot of P-51H and F-82 drawings and illustrations in it. However, not much movement has happened with digitization due to them having to work out a deal with Boeing before any serious work can happen on that front.
