Pastels and Panel Lines?

[dneid]

Hey, All (Wayne more specifically),
I was trying the pastel/panel line high light ideas. What I am running into is the ease with which I can blow the pastel right out of the panel line leaving behind virtually no highlighting. Anyone else have this problem? If so, how did you solve the issue?
Dale

 

[Crimea_River]

If you're doing it with a gloss coat on, chances are not much will stick. Stick better to flat surfaces.

 

[dneid]

Hey, Andy,
I thought that would be the answer. I'll lay on a light, Tamiya flat acrylic finish and then get the panel highlighting done with a final matte finish afterwards. I assume mixing a little Tamiya flat arylic with some future will do the trick for the final coat?
Dale

 

[Wayne Little]

Hey Dale, yes the pastel works best on the matte paint, then sealed with a gloss coat, you can do it on the gloss coat too, see my pages 56 from the PDF's..it is best rubbed in with a "blunt" cut back brush then wiped away, retaining a small amount in the panel lines and surrounding area., I actually wipe it away with my damp finger...just like you wet it with your tongue when you turn a page....

 

[Airframes]

Yes, you can make anything from a full matt to a semi-gloss by mixing Tamiya Flat Base with 'Future'. However, test it first, as too much flat base will result in a white, chalky appearance. Trial and error will provide the best mix for matt, semi-matt etc.

 

[dneid]

Hey, Terry,
That is exactly what happened. The chalky finish that is. I mixed up just flat with Tamiya acrylic thinner. Shot it on late at night, set it aside to dry. walked in in the AM and found the chalky finish across the entire plane (the '51). So, I am stripping it down with Windex slowly. I think I will shift to an enamel based gloss coat anf flat finish from here on in.
Dale

 

[Airframes]

Yep, the Tamiya FB used straight, thinned or not, will dry white!
It's great when mixed with Future as described, and I now use only this for finish coats (unless gloss), as it doesn't 'yellow' with time, as all other matt varnishes do. It's also a lot cheaper than using a 'normal' matt varnish!

 

[tigerdriver]

what ratio of flat base to future do you use Terry ?

 

[Airframes]

Depends on what final finish is required. For a full matt, it's normally no more than two or three 'dollops' of Flat Base, on a paint brush, stirred into around half a cap-full of the Johnstones Klear (Future).
You need to experiment with the first mix, testing on a piece of scrap plastic. Once dry (allow about 15 to 30 minutes), if it has too much sheen, add a touch more FB and test again and so on. If it dries with a dusty look, or worse, a chalky look, then it needs more Future.
It's best to test on a colour which will show the change, such as dark green, or black, and it doesn't take long to arrive at a formula which will suit your requirements, when a bottle-full can be prepared if desired.
Hope this helps.

 

[mikewint]

That tendancy toward chalkyness is why I decided to use acrylic Flat Clear rather than base with Future. 50/50 on Military finishes

 

[Airframes]

Mixed as described Mike, with the testing done, will eliminate the chalkiness. This is caused by the matting agent in the FB when it dries, and is a sure sign that far too much FB has been used.
However, this can sometimes be used to advantage, again after a little experimentation, when a light dusty look is required. For instance on a vehicle, or as I did on the SEAC Spitfire, when the solution will dry with a very slight, misty, pale grey haze, simulating a patina of dust or grime.

 

[mikewint]

All part of weathering, another skill I wish I had. I put them on an open shelf, after a year....Ta Da: dusty

 

[Vengeance]

Hey Wayne,
While we are on the subject of Hard pastels, I'm wondering what brand and where you buy your pastels from, the art shop near me sells only oil pastels and soft pastels, when I asked about hard pastels, chalk-like, they directed me to the chalk!
Being in Oz the process of tracking them down should be similar to yours!
Cheers!!
Vengeance

 

[Wayne Little]

Hey Wayne,
While we are on the subject of Hard pastels, I'm wondering what brand and where you buy your pastels from, the art shop near me sells only oil pastels and soft pastels, when I asked about hard pastels, chalk-like, they directed me to the chalk!
Being in Oz the process of tracking them down should be similar to yours!
Cheers!!
Vengeance

Will take a pic or two, they are the chalk type and should be common in any good art shop and there are plenty of colours to choose from!

 

[Wayne Little]

pastel Pic...

 

[Vengeance]

Thanks Wayne,
I find it interesting they are "soft" pastels, I thought "hard" pastels were the go and have not been able to find any! Oil pastels are out, Im aware of that but I've been searching high and low for "hard" pastels specifically!! I've found a cheap shop nearby that sells "soft" pastels although they are a different brand to your Art Spectrum.
I think I'll get myself a packet, they are about $10 for a pack of 10-15 in some good shades, and will report back on how they go!!
So I've learned something today, not what I expected to learn, but learned something none-the-less!!
Thanks again Wayne!!

 

[Wayne Little]

You're welcome, those pastels are $3-4 a pop they are not cheap but there is quite a colour range to choose from.

 

[Vengeance]

Just another query for Wayne.I'm about to try your Grey lead pencil panel line technique for the first time. Is there any preparation required before going in with the pencil? I've used matt tamiya paints throughout and I've just finish the paint job and construction phase. Do I need a coat of matt clear before the pencil or can I just go straight in with the grey lead on the matt colours?

P.S Its my corsair (thats taken over 6 months to get to this stage)in the Navy Blue, Intermediate Blue and white Scheme (all Matt)

 

[Wayne Little]

Just another query for Wayne.I'm about to try your Grey lead pencil panel line technique for the first time. Is there any preparation required before going in with the pencil? I've used matt tamiya paints throughout and I've just finish the paint job and construction phase. Do I need a coat of matt clear before the pencil or can I just go straight in with the grey lead on the matt colours?

P.S Its my corsair (thats taken over 6 months to get to this stage)in the Navy Blue, Intermediate Blue and white Scheme (all Matt)

you go straight onto the Matt paint, Check out the PDF's I have done...and download them for reference.

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/weathering-questions-tutorials-and-guidebooks/waynes-modelling-methods-pdfs-20660.html

 

[Vengeance]

Thanks for reply Wayne, Am following your tutorials closely, they are terrific, just wasn't sure if you had put an over all clear matt coat before hitting it with the grey lead or not!
Cheers, will try to post pics when I'm done (but don't hold your breath, it may take another 6 months)