PBS SHOW TO ARGUE ALLIES AS BAD AS NAZIS

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It´s always sad for me to see such a discussion...the agressor seems to be a victim and the victim seems to be an agressor?
Hey people, wake up! Once you start the war, you gotta count with effects...
Agressor build concentration camps...why?...just to kill the NATION,RELIGION or POLITICS...
Victim (and agressor as well) bombed the civilian cities...why? To show the power, to frighten the people and to make the war SHORTER (not the agresor).
The war is not a PC game and you gotta kill or to be killed only because of ****ing decision made by politicians...
I know few WW2 vets (both Allies and Axis) and all of them are friends of mine...why? Because they can speak to each other as a friends today and no one from them would fight anymore...****ing politicians toke them their youth away and teached them how to kill in a best way...shocking?...no, unfortunately reality 60 years ago...do you think it´s long time ago? I don´t think so...but sometime I feel people forget too fast...´cause they don´t care for the past.
But if you don´t care for the past, you can´t build a peaceful future...so wake up...

For those they know Willi Reschke here´s what he told me 2 years ago during his visit during the discussion in our museum:

Dear friends, if I can, I wanna apologize for everything that Germans did to your nation during WW2. Today I know I helped Hitler to reach his target but back then I wanted to defence my land. When I hanged behind B-17, there were only 2 possibilities- to kill or to be killed...Anyway, though I was your former enemy, I´m as your friend here today and I hope we all will be friends forever...I´ll never forget these moments spent here with you.

and:

Roman, I have never expected that I´ll visit this area again and I didn´t know what to expect here as a German fighter pilot. But I have to say that I still can´t get over. Why so many people came here, were so kind to me, asked me questions? I could kill their fathers or grandfathers in WW2 and they were so friendly to me...You know, in Germany, some skinheads used my name and pictures of me on their websites and lot of my friends thought I´m a nazi and I had a lot of problems with that. So that´s why I was so careful when you asked me if I could come here. Today I know it was one of my best decisions I ever toke...

And that´s why I´m interested in the WW2 history...
More at:
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/av...joe-owsianik-meeting-after-63-years-9298.html
Warbird Photo Album - Willi Reschke
 

100% with you man !
 
 
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Everyone is worried that this show will be revisionist history well since none of us have seen it we a judging it on some guy we don't know have never met opinion of the of the show . Yes Seesul war is a brutal and unforgiving affair I have relatives residing in cemeteries in Europe . I also know many vets from both sides and they've been there and done that I know guys that did not enjoy the hospitality of the Japanese , I've met RCAF guys that were interned in Bergen Belsen , and these guys deserve all the respect we can muster .
However I'll bet my ass that decisions made on both sides were sometimes the product of egos and vanity that caused undo hardship to the average guys on both sides suffered because of these vain fools
 

Amen brother. As ugly as the truth is, we should not undertake historical revision for the risk of incurring the wrath of ignorance. And that is the most scary power in the world.
 
I'm American ...And really did not get into the Civil War alot until just some time ago ..We learned about it in school and all (i'm 43)...Was always much more into WW2.. So I really did some looking around on WW2..( Not that I'm even in same league on WW2 as most of you here)... But I was always thinking that the Civil War was mostly about slavery... ..

Once I did some looking it was not... .. So they most of been teaching us the BS in the Dark Ages when I was in school also...
 
Soren said:
I don't think it's that ridiculous Njaco, the reason being that it's true. Why else bomb the major cities when it was well known that the factories weren't located there ? Hitting the population has its own crippling effect.
Click to expand...

Was Hitler's motives different? With London, Amsterdamn, Warsaw, St. Petersburg, etc. for example?
 
Marcel said:
Being Dutch and having lived there, I must correct you and say it was Rotterdam, not Amsterdam that was bombed ... ...Sorry Chris, I just had to.
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No problem, I was just naming off cities in allied countries.

I find it rather wiered that people always bring up the fact of the allied bombing, but fail to realize that Hitler was bombing civilian cities first.
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I find it rather wiered that people always bring up the fact of the allied bombing, but fail to realize that Hitler was bombing civilian cities first.
Click to expand...

All the way back to the Spanish Civil War. The Condor Legion bombed Guernica in 1937.

And the Japanese were dropping bombs on civilian population centers (Manila, Nanking to name a few) long before the first American bombs fell on the land of Nippon.

Payback is a bitch!

TO
 
go further cack to WW1 and the Zeppelins Gothas
 
DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I find it rather wiered that people always bring up the fact of the allied bombing, but fail to realize that Hitler was bombing civilian cities first.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I think it's due to the fact that the allies were so much better at it. Also Hitlers bombing doesn't make good the mistakes made by bomber command and the USAAF. I think they were on a thin line using a strategy like that. This doesn't take away the fact that the NAZI's easily stepped over this line, though.
 

Good point Marcel, I think the Allied bombing of German cities is harder to defend because it had little military effect. I have always felt that too much production was taken up by bombers, I think it would have been better use if they had made more fighters, escorts, ground attack maritime patrol.

But the heads of the British American Air Forces were big on Strategic bombing....
 
freebird said:
But that's one of the arguments that they use "But Stalin was as bad as Hitler"...
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Considering the crimes he committed against his own countrymen, even the ones "liberated" in 44 45, he was probably worse than Hitler.
 
Soren said:
Considering the crimes he committed against his own countrymen, even the ones "liberated" in 44 45, he was probably worse than Hitler.
Click to expand...

stalin killed more than hitler, but mao tse tung killed even more. but sure, you have to pay ateption in the size of germany, size of soviet union and size of china.

i believe 1° mao tse tung, 2° hitler, 3° stalin these are the top 3 psychos !
 


In no particular order. Also consider the time span in which they did it. I think Hitler was as bad as any of them.
 
I have read the book in question and it is actually a very interesting read. I haven't seen the programme but I can see where it's coming from. A lot of people see WW2 as if it were a 1950's movie - Brits and USA all good and virtuous, Germans all evil Nazis whereas soldiers from all sides committed war crimes. Of course the war crimes of Germany and Japan were on a far greater scale than anything the Western Allies ever performed, but as historians they have a right and duty to explore all aspects.

The topic title is just sensationalism really as they do have a legitimate point. That said, it's my view (one which I would imagine is held by most people on here) that deportations, internment and bombing were a necessary evil and that in total war, normal rules morals and rights just don't apply
 
Soren said:
Considering the crimes he committed against his own countrymen, even the ones "liberated" in 44 45, he was probably worse than Hitler.
Click to expand...

Oh I think he was!

The point that I was making is that saying "Stalin was worse than Hitler" does not mean that "The Allies should not go to war with Germany"
 
Not sure if I agree with the idea that everyone committed atrocities as a common currency for all armies during WW2. Doing so is a step in the logic that the Allies were no better than the Axis. It is an arguement based more on inference than actual fact.

While Allied troops did commit atrocities (Dachau, Stutgart, ect), they were isolated cases and not part of official policy. There were no orders written and signed by Ike, Monty or any other Western Allied General instructing the troops to massacre civilians or captured soliders. There were no orders calling for "extreme measures" or similar such as those sent to the Wermacht during the Battle of the Bulge (which were largely ignored by the German troops but not entirely ignored).

However, the Nazis exterminated civilians as a matter of course. The Sodercommando (sp?) were a unit designed to do just that. The objective was not done as an aim of winning the war (possible considered an unfortunate side affect of battle) but as an action of genocide.

Compared to the war in the East, the war in the West was generally fought within the bounds of some rules of war. With exception of units such as the SS, there were generally limitations. However, the underlying conduct of the powers involved (Allied and Axis) was completely different. And it is here that the arguement that the Allies and Axis were the same completely breaks down.
 
I haven't read all of the tread, but here are my two cents...

Saying that the Allies are as bad as the Nazis is pure provocation. Of course there was war crimes commited on both sides, but ask yourself the questions :

Who started to bomb cities first ? Germans (First recorded bombing of a city in WWII being Wielun, Poland (September 1st 1939), destroying 75% of the city and killing close to 1,200 people.)
Who started to kill P.O.W.s first ? Germans (Invasion of Poland, September 1st - October 25th 1939.)

So you know, as someone stated earlier, payback is a bitch. They "accidently bombed" (yeah, sure... who can thrust a Nazi's word ?) a civilian area of London in 1940, the RAF replied by bombing Berlin and then they started to bomb London, Liverpool, Portsmouth and so on...

Then, a few years later, the RAF/USAAF wiped out Dresden... In my book, it was not a war crime, it was justice. A blind justice, but still justice.

And now some Neo-Nazi @ssholes in Germany wants the Queen to apologize for that bombing ? Are they f*cking retarded ? If I was the King of Great-Britain, I would never apologize... Even worse, I would call in the media and say something like : "So you want me to apologize for Dresden ? Sit on it, bitch ! (Give the finger to the camera.)" But once again, I've never hidden the fact that I'm a scumbag... Anyway, I'm getting off-topic here...

For the record : I'm glad the Queen has not apologized for Dresden.

So the Allies did some nasty things... Who cares ? It was greatly justified.
 
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