Phantom FG.1 and FGR.2 Differences

Discussion in 'Questions on Kits, Decals, Tools and Pilots' started by Catch22, Jan 3, 2015.

  1. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Hey guys,

    I'm wondering, from a modeling perspective, what are the differences between the British Phantom FG.1 and FGR.2 are. There's a basic list on Wikipedia, and it doesn't look too long, and nothing that I'd really have to worry about, but Wikipedia isn't always right, and I'm far from an expert. I know there's the extending front gear, but otherwise would I be ok using a 1/48 Hasegawa FGR.2 kit without much issue? I'm trying to decide if I want to do an RN Ark Royal Phantom or an RAF one, which I have already purchased decals for. Maybe do an RN one alongside a certain Buccaneer kit that a certain member here loves! :lol: I already own the FGR.2 kit, and looking at ebay it doesn't look like I want to be buying another kit!
     
  2. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    The Royal Navy Phantoms were handed over to the RAF when the FAA ceased operating conventional fixed-wing aircraft from carriers, following the change to the Sea Harrier.
    Both the FG1 and FGR2 were in service with the RAF after this time, but issued to specific squadrons - the type wasn't mixed, and (normally) the sub-type squadrons would be based on the same airfield, for ease of maintenance, stores etc etc.
    Externally, there is little difference between the two, apart from the extra torque link for the extending nose gear leg, different lamps on the nose gear door, catapult hooks beneath the wings, and slotted, or 'plain' tail plane. From memory, with the possible exception of the tail plane, the Hasegawa RN and RAF FG1 kits include the parts for the nose gear doors and the lamps, and 'blanks' for the catapult hook mounts, with the extra torque link being either fitted or omitted, using the nose gear leg as provided (the 'extended' leg is a separate, optional part).I'm not sure if the FGR2 kit includes the parts for the FG1 though, so it might be better to stick with a RAF version, from the squadrons that operated this type. Again, I can provide the info on this later today.
    I can post more detailed info later today - I'm off to bed, as it's stupid o' clock here!
    I originally built mine as a 43 Sqn FG1, ex RN, using the 'Ark Royal' issue of the kit, and then 'converted' it to a 56 Sqn FGR2 by removing the extra torque link, filling the apertures for the catapult hooks, changing the nose gear door, and filling in the 'slots' on the tail-planes, then just a change of serial number and markings.
    Internally, of course, there were a number of differences, including the cockpits, but these can't be seen on a model, apart from some small cockpit details.
    First of all, identify which squadron you want to portray, and the time period, and this will provide the type, and the colour scheme.
    There was also one other squadron added to the Phantom fleet after the Falklands campaign, 74 'Tiger' Squadron, equipped with the F-4J(UK), ex - US Navy airframes, painted in the grey scheme, different to the RAF pattern, and called Flint Grey. When these became 'worn out', they were, in turn, replaced by 'British' Phantoms, from squadrons converting to the Tornado F3.
    If you do decide to get another one, then look out for the Revell re-boxing of the FGR2, which has 56 Sqn decals, in the 'grey' scheme, as one of the options, and, although still not particularly cheap, it's not as daft a price as the Hasegawa kit. I got my Hasegawa example back in the late 1980's, and it was £25 even then - a lot of dosh for nearly 30 years ago !
     
  3. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    #3 Catch22, Jan 3, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2015
    Thanks for the info Terry, looking forward to the additional info.

    After looking at my kit more closely, the fuselage, wing, nose cone and pod sprues all say 1/48 FG.1/FGR.2 on them, while the sprues with the ordnance and cockpit/intakes all say 1/48 F-4. Both horizontal stabilizers have separated from the tree, and I cannot seem to find it in the bag, which I hesitate to open as there are a few other bits that have come off the tree. They don't appear to have any slots in them. I do have two different nose doors with different light patterns.

    As for markings, I'm covered for RAF aircraft has I have this sheet.

    [​IMG]

    I was considering doing one of the ones with the blue tail as you see there at the bottom, but I've also been looking into the Falklands War, and noted there were three Phantoms involved. This is the only photo of one that I can find however. It appears to be XV484.

    RAF-Stanley-Phantom-06.jpg

    The annoying thing is I've found some for reasonable prices on Ebay (although they're bids so they could get nasty), but the shipping is $40 Canadian, so at best I'd be paying $70.

    EDIT: I've now found this one of XV468. The aircraft at Ascension Island during the war were XV466, XV468 and XV484 from what I can find.

    Untitled-1yty.jpg
     
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  4. fubar57

    fubar57 Well-Known Member

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    Too far from my books to offer any help at the moment Cory but I'll look when I get home Wednesday morning. I like the looks of the Brit Phantoms.

    Geo
     
  5. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    Cory, do you want me to take a sniff around town for a kit? Which one are you looking for?
     
  6. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Geo, no rush as this is for the jet GB! Just thought I'd get my ducks in a row nice and early in case I need to find something.

    Andy, it's certainly not necessary but if you happen to be at a hobby store I'd be very glad if you'd be willing to take a peek. I'm looking specifically for a Phantom FG.1, which is the variant the Royal Navy had, which as Terry explained above the RAF later received as well. It may be in an RAF boxing which is fine, since I can procure decals for it I'm sure. I'm going to look around myself as well and see if I can't find one where the shipping isn't comedic. The unfortuante thing is we don't have anything like Rick's hobby store here in Edmonton, which is the place that would have stuff like that.
     
  7. Crimea_River

    Crimea_River Well-Known Member

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    There are a 3 other stores here in Calgary and one in High River, which I pass weekly and which I mean to visit one day. If I see it, I'll let you know. 1/48 I assume.
     
  8. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, 1/48. Greatly appreciated Andy!
     
  9. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Now that I'm more awake, I've had a quick check, and basically, I've covered the major differences. It would all depend on which squadron, and when, as to what Mark was used, and in which colour scheme.
    The 'grey' scheme started to come into service in the early 1980's, and had completely replaced the grey/green scheme by around 1985, on UK-based Phantoms, with those in Germany being replaced by the Jaguar or Tornado. The grey scheme was Barley Grey and Medium Sea Grey upper surfaces, with Light Aircraft Grey undersides, the MSG being on the main wing panels only, the outer, 'bent' tips being in the Barley Grey.
    There were no Phantoms active in the Falklands war - those three were sent down to Ascension, and then on to Stanley, after the conflict, to act as 'local defence', or 'showing the flag', and remained there until being replaced by Tornados, the crews doing a three-month tour in rotation.
    One of the three had a 'zap' sticker on the port nose, from the Jodel Club, entitled 'Bent Wings are Best' which, as far as I know, remained in place until the aircraft was salvaged. I know - cos I stuck it there the day before they Coningsby left for Ascension !
    The pics below - scanned from rejected slides from the AV production I was making at the time - were taken at Coningsby on the same day the three Phantoms departed for Ascension, and give a good impression of the colour scheme, and how it got dirty quickly. Note the black vertical 'lines' down the fuselage, left by the rubber heels of the ground crew's boots !
    From memory, and with the lack of squadron markings, these would be from the OCU, whereas the ones sent down to the South Atlantic were drawn from one of the squadrons, and had their markings obliterated, later adopting the Maltese cross badge of the Flight (1335 Flight I think, I'd have to check) they formed, positioned on the nose, after the Flight of Gladiators used in the early defence of Malta.
    Let me know when you decide what you want to do, and I'll copy and e-mail the 'Aeroguide' on the RAF Phantoms.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    Wow, with that little tidbit I'd say I'm going to go with the aircraft you stuck a sticker on! That's some great info, thanks Terry.
     
  11. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    You're welcome Cory. Unfortunately, I can't remember the serial number of the one I 'zapped'. It was in the hangar, under final preparation for the trip, and I'd just climbed down from the cockpit. Although I'd photographed most of the Phantoms on the airfield, which were more or less identical to this bird, I wasn't allowed to photograph this one, which I'd just been in, for 'security reasons' !
    BTW, these three were all FGR2's - identifying features being the single lamp on the nose gear door, no 'extending' oleo or extra torque link, and non-slotted tail planes. There were some minor differences in the shape of some blade antennae too.
    Really miss these big birds ...............
    EDIT : Forgot to add, if you want to add the 'zap' sticker, I think I still have one somewhere, and can photograph it for you.
     
  12. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    I would very much like add that sticker Terry. I don't see it on XV484, assuming it isn't hidden by that tarp. Shouldn't be too too hard to nail it down, just have to do more digging. Now that I know roughly where it is, once I know the size it shouldn't be too hard to spot.
     
  13. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    While we're on the subject, it turns out I'll have to source the other AirDoc sheet that comes with just the stencils (what a stupid way of doing things) since my kit doesn't have stencils with it, as it's a special edition that lacks most of them...
     
  14. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Leave it with me Cory, and I'll dig out the sticker and photograph it. Might be tad tricky to reproduce in 1/48th scale though, as it's circular, and only about 4 inches in diameter.
    It was stuck on the nose on the port side, a bit forward of the 'Rescue' arrow, and slightly lower, roughly in line with the nose gear leg.
    It's a shame that the dry-transfer decal sheets aren't still available, made by a company who's name escapes me at the moment (they were a model shop, now closed due to retirement), as they included markings and serial numbers for every British FG1/FGR2 ever flown, RAF and RN, and a separate sheet of all the stencils (bl**dy thousands of 'em) in both white and black, for the two main colour schemes.
    I still have most of mine left, as I'll probably get another kit at some stage, to do in the older green/grey camouflage.
     
  15. Wurger

    Wurger Siggy Master
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  16. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Cory, I have the Hasegawa 1/48 Phantom FGR 2 56 Sqn kit, it has a full set of stencils for a grey aircraft in White and a set for a green/grey cammo bird in black.
    I will be doing a cammo bird so all the other decals are yours if you want ?
     
  17. Airframes

    Airframes Benevolens Magister

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    Nice one Karl !
    I haven't found that 'zap' sticker yet - I know it's here somewhere, as I saw it recently, so it's probably in a place so obvious, I can't find it !
     
  18. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    There is absolutely no rush for that Terry, as it will be quite some time until the build gets started anyway!

    Karl, you're a saviour as I haven't found anything for stencils, other than out of production sheets. I'll send you a PM.
     
  19. rochie

    rochie Well-Known Member

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    Replied Cory.

    Not the greatest pic but you can see there are plenty of spares :lol:

    DSC_0247.jpg
     
  20. Catch22

    Catch22 Well-Known Member

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    You got that right! Maybe I regret this! :lol:
     
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