PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS

[delcyros]

An interesting detail of the first picture is that, beside of the large debris, the fuselage fuel tank is hit and there is no fire. The reasons are following:
1.) The fuel tanks and the engines are not in one line (unlike the Vampire, Me-163 or P-80)
2.) the ignition temp. of the low grade german jet fuel (close to Diesel) is high
3.) the jumo-004 B don´t have such a high exhaust temp.
A P-80 in this situation would be a burning fireball, interesting.

 

[delcyros]

The small black thing, probably was kind of debris in the first picture, Adler. Another picture from the same guncam shootage showing Lt. Schulte ejecting at pretty low alt. According to the website, he was intercepted at take off by Capt. Robert F. Sargent from the 339th FG, 504th fighter squad in the near of Kaltenkirchen.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Aha thanks for the clarification.

 

[Erich]

1st of January onward through the week. some very strange stuff that I will record. Typically overshadowed by Unternehmen Bodenplatte attack on the airfields, disaster for many Luftwaffe pilot both experienced and non.....

more

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Cant wait.

 

[Chocks away!]

Hey these were taken from the same shoot down CC 8)
(reverse order )

 

[cheddar cheese]

Cool pics! 8)

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeah I like them.

Does anyone know of an exact ammount of jet fighters shot down by piston engined aircraft. Since the P-80 and the Meteor did not have any aerial kills obviously the aerial shoot downs were from piston engine aircraft however I am sure many were shot down by AA and such or simply lost by mechanical failure or mistakes.

 

[Erich]

yes but cross checking with known German sources can be difficualt as well as US/RAF claims to actual German jet losses. I have a ton of stuff and like I said in another thread back in the 1960's is when I was hunting for info on the 262, the US pilots were open to sharing info but it was not till early 1980's that the German chaps started opening up......several had been living under the Soviet thumb on the eastern side of Deutschland

the reason for starting or evaluating the day by day events of props vs jets. yes this could be 50 pages in length minimum. I am translating some German source info at present between work on the first week of January right now............

another book just relased in the UK Classic Pubs 2nd TAF volume 2 which covers the multi national Allied force over Germany from August 44 till after Bodenplatte in january 45. Volume 3 will really be interesting and cover the Allied projections in the Sptis, Tempests taking on the 262/Ar 234, but that maybe next year in arriving.

ok more still to come.............also a little reminder, the pics that have been shown are copyrighted through the 339th fg association and although been available on the web-birds aviation web-site are still copyrighted material and may not be shown without prior consent of Jim as well as the 339th fg Assoc. Let's put it another way shall we. Jim has aksed the chaps of the 339th fg to share pics which he his plenty and they were entitled for his site only. I'll have some more on this as I know one of the pilots, a 262 killer and he is the assoc. newsletter rep, Steve Ananian

 

[Erich]

Depending on the sources cross checked, with most claims by the 2nd TAF, the Raf claimed 34 jets damaged and 32 jets destroyed. Am assuming this was also on airfield strafes.

US army air force claimed from 28th of August 1944 till February 25th 1945 :

39 jets damaged
33 jets destroyed.

obviously many damaged on the ground as well as toasted on the airfields.

again these are claims and we are trying our best to substantiate the claims with true Luftwaffe pilot/aircraft losses if they can be found. this is only an inking of the ones claimed by US AF. There are indeed 39 more dates of claims till war's end. As for the Soviets I do not have much of anything but I think 4 were claimed as destroyed. It maybe less than this.....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Since he killed some 262's maybe you can get him on here to shed some light and post some experiences.

 

[Erich]

Steve A. wrote me a lengthy reply some years back and we have also chatted on the phone so when I come to the date where he bagged a jet I will include this. think it would be best to hae something like this thread for a chronological order of things with anyone adding their two cents. most pics obviously are from the spring of 45 as the jets were becoming the standard Luftw. fighter encountered with many prop jobs on the Ost front. I have some intersteing March/April 1945 bomber crew interviews on jet attacks on their bomber boxes coming up later

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Would be great if you would post them.

 

[Erich]

just a note I haven't forgotten this thread. just need some time and it maybe August before I can pull out resources and deluge this thing to no end 8)

Horrido !

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

No problem take your time, you know we always look foward to what ever you have.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

just a note I haven't forgotten this thread. just need some time and it maybe August before I can pull out resources and deluge this thing to no end 8)

Horrido !

Great! In the mean time I throw some tid-bids in here as well. Always appreciate your inputs Erich!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

You better throw some tidbits in FBJ, you always have good info "old man"!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Thanks!

 

[Erich]

lets just make sure that we start where we left off please....

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Agreed