Erich
the old Sage
Viktor, viktor, Ich verstehen Les, no problemo............
trying to read Huie's combat report so I can place it here very soon....
trying to read Huie's combat report so I can place it here very soon....
PISTON ENGINE AIRCRAFT JET KILLS
- Thread starter FLYBOYJ
- Start date
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Which allied pilot had the most kills against a jet? Also does anyone know of how many He-162's were shot down, if any?
Erich
the old Sage
no more that 2 jet kills were recorded by any one pilot in the air. On the ground might be another story....
He 162's have been claimed as well as He 162's killing RAF single engine jobs but frankly I still have not found confirmed evidence. The 162 was a death trap to JG 1 pilots....
He 162's have been claimed as well as He 162's killing RAF single engine jobs but frankly I still have not found confirmed evidence. The 162 was a death trap to JG 1 pilots....
Yeah thanks, I too have not found anything on the 162 subject that is confirmed.
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
There are six claims of He-162 credited kills from which one has been officially confimed by the Luftwaffe (posthum, Kirchner), I posted four of them (all JG-1) in the Me262vsP-80 poll (compare there).
the two other claims are from JV-"Oesau" (..not sure about the designation, but it is not JG-1, it was a proposed basic unit for later HJ flyers):
No.------Name-------------date--------area----------------type----eyewitnesses
#5---OT Adolf Dickfeld----21.4.45----central Germany--P-47----unknown
#6---Lt W.Batz-------------22.4.45----central Germany--P-47----unknown
No official confirmation by Luftwaffe, of course.
As far as I see one He-162 was claimed by RAF Tempests, but there must be more (at least the P-47 which fatally damaged Kirchners He-162).
Verification of these claims is a hard matter, since the losses by 2nd tactical airforce (in case of #1-#4) in the given time and area are much higher than the losses but the reasons my differ. At least R. Schmitts claim of a Typhoon/Tempest was also made by a local 2 cm Vierlingsflak. The P-47 losses relie on the credibility of the claimers (also more losses known), at least kirchners claim maybe correct, since the RAF pilot shot down was captured and interrogated (he confirmed) on May,1st, 45.
the two other claims are from JV-"Oesau" (..not sure about the designation, but it is not JG-1, it was a proposed basic unit for later HJ flyers):
No.------Name-------------date--------area----------------type----eyewitnesses
#5---OT Adolf Dickfeld----21.4.45----central Germany--P-47----unknown
#6---Lt W.Batz-------------22.4.45----central Germany--P-47----unknown
No official confirmation by Luftwaffe, of course.
As far as I see one He-162 was claimed by RAF Tempests, but there must be more (at least the P-47 which fatally damaged Kirchners He-162).
Verification of these claims is a hard matter, since the losses by 2nd tactical airforce (in case of #1-#4) in the given time and area are much higher than the losses but the reasons my differ. At least R. Schmitts claim of a Typhoon/Tempest was also made by a local 2 cm Vierlingsflak. The P-47 losses relie on the credibility of the claimers (also more losses known), at least kirchners claim maybe correct, since the RAF pilot shot down was captured and interrogated (he confirmed) on May,1st, 45.
I would not have enjoyed flying a 162. Plus the whole having to bail out thing with a turbo jet right behind you!
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
The He-162 is often misunderstood. It´s a pretty plane. Most accidents (far less than Me-262) can be connected with planes running out of fuel. The bail out is also not very problematic, since the He-162 was one of the first planes to be serial equipped with an ejector seat. You just need to ensure that the canopy is released prior to ejecting.
Erich
the old Sage
there has been no confirmation of any He 162 kills by the JG 1 authors, Dr. Jochen Prien nor Eric Mombeek or even the detailed "official keeper" of the kills listing, Hans Ring.
plain and simple the He 162 was a flying pile of crap
plain and simple the He 162 was a flying pile of crap
I was never to fond of it. I just dont like the whole jet plane being built out of wood!
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
Well, not the whole plane was made of wood, the fuselage was metal , the wing and tail was partly made of metal (controll surfaces) and mainly made of wood. According to Eric Brown, an RAF test pilot, who flew most early jets (Meteor MK III, MK IV, D.H. Vampire, Me-262, He-162, P-59 and P-80) the He-162 was the best of them.
I disagree that it is (...more than a Me-262...) a death trap, but we may discuss it on another board if needed.
Official confirmations haven´t made by Luftwaffe (except for Kirchner, but posthumus) for He-162 claims, but there are eyewitnesses in most cases, which implie that it could be. Verification is needed.
I wonder about Dr. J. Prien that he doesn´t refer to the flight log of Schmitt, which support his claim with an entry "...Tempest effectively shot". Schmitts claim can be connected with a Tempest of No.222 squadron lost by a small jet plane (pilot F.G. Austin KIA) over northwestern Germany at May 4th,1945. Dickfelds claim is also his 136th aerial victory.
With 5 out of 6 claims unconfirmed and only one confirmed it is easier to disprove one claim than to disprove the other five. However, it´s not that easy, I think.
I found out that F/O Walkington of No.222 squadron (Tempest) on 19th of april strafed Husum airfield (an airfield of JG 1), where he chased a small jet plane. Subsequent analysis of combat records and gun camera film revealed that this airplane was a He-162. One of those rare He-162 kills.
I disagree that it is (...more than a Me-262...) a death trap, but we may discuss it on another board if needed.
Official confirmations haven´t made by Luftwaffe (except for Kirchner, but posthumus) for He-162 claims, but there are eyewitnesses in most cases, which implie that it could be. Verification is needed.
I wonder about Dr. J. Prien that he doesn´t refer to the flight log of Schmitt, which support his claim with an entry "...Tempest effectively shot". Schmitts claim can be connected with a Tempest of No.222 squadron lost by a small jet plane (pilot F.G. Austin KIA) over northwestern Germany at May 4th,1945. Dickfelds claim is also his 136th aerial victory.
With 5 out of 6 claims unconfirmed and only one confirmed it is easier to disprove one claim than to disprove the other five. However, it´s not that easy, I think.
I found out that F/O Walkington of No.222 squadron (Tempest) on 19th of april strafed Husum airfield (an airfield of JG 1), where he chased a small jet plane. Subsequent analysis of combat records and gun camera film revealed that this airplane was a He-162. One of those rare He-162 kills.
Erich
the old Sage
many accidents by JG 1 pilots through the canopy due to faulty ejection seat and canopy release. the He 162 shouldn't even be mentioned in this thread...........
delcyros
Tech Sergeant
All planes rushed into combat suffer from technical disadvantages. JG-1 lost 13 He-162, killing 10 pilots. Only 3 of these losses can be connected in anyway with enemy actions (2 kills and one probably), 5 losses by planes running out of fuel, 2 planes by terminal dive, 2 by landing accident and one more because of unknown reasons (probably structural). in 5 known cases the ejection seat was used, at least on two times the canopy failed to relaese automaticly and killing the pilot. Schmitt himself used succesfully the ejection seat (probably running out of fuel on april). Compare this with the losses of Kdo. Nowotny and you will feel more secure in a He-162.
Erich
the old Sage
At the time of the He 162 1945, I will surely take the Me 262. there is no comparison
ok back to the jet kills by Allied piston jobs; now where is that fg report I had in my hands ?
ok back to the jet kills by Allied piston jobs; now where is that fg report I had in my hands ?
Erich
the old Sage
I think I need to to do some editing on this thread............
Huie Lambs report this afternoon and then we can get this thing back on track
Huie Lambs report this afternoon and then we can get this thing back on track
What? Now I am lost.
Erich
the old Sage
Eagle go back a page. we got sidetracked with the fatal he 162 so Huie's report is coming to fruition this next week along with some others. I think we left off in November/December 44.
have no fear I will list some interesting tidbits, but have two broken ribs that are giving me some problems right now.........got sinch that up
have no fear I will list some interesting tidbits, but have two broken ribs that are giving me some problems right now.........got sinch that up
Oh man, sorry about ribs. What the hell did you do to break them?
the lancaster kicks ass
Major General
- 19,937
- Dec 20, 2003
and how bad is it??
i think i speak for all of us when i say i wish you a speedy recovery.........
i think i speak for all of us when i say i wish you a speedy recovery.........
