Plane with 48 aboard crashes into house in suburban Buffalo

Discussion in 'Modern' started by seesul, Feb 13, 2009.

  1. seesul

    seesul Active Member

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    (CNN) -- A Continental Airlines plane crashed in suburban Buffalo, New York, late Thursday with 44 passengers and four crew members aboard, according to authorities. CNN is reporting all people aboard the plane were killed. There's been one confirmed death on the ground.
    Continental Airlines Flight 3407 crashed into a house in suburban Buffalo, New York, late Thursday.

    Flight 3407, operated by Colgan Air, was en route from Newark, New Jersey, when it went down in Clarence Center, said Bill Peat with New York State Emergency Management in Albany.

    The plane crashed about 10:20 p.m., hitting a home and bursting into a fireball, according to New York State Trooper John Manthey.

    The crash took place about seven miles from Buffalo Niagara International Airport. Video Watch video from CNN affiliate WGRZ »

    Area resident Keith Burtis said he was driving to the store about a mile from the crash site when he heard the plane go down. "It was a high-pitched sound," Burtis said. "It felt like a mini-earthquake." Video Watch officials on the scene: 'This is not a rescue mission' »

    Shortly after the crash, Burtis said he saw a steady stream of fire trucks rush by him as smoke billowed into the sky. Are you on the scene? Let us know at iReport

    Other witnesses told CNN affiliate WGRZ they saw the plane nose-diving toward the ground.

    Continental Airlines confirmed that the Bombardier Dash 8 Q400 was operating between Newark Liberty International Airport and Buffalo.

    The National Transportation Safety Board said early Friday that it was preparing a "go team" to head to Buffalo to investigate the crash. The aircraft has seating capacity of 74, officials said.

    There was a wintry mix at the time of the crash, officials said.

    Officials said relatives of passengers aboard the flight should call 1-800-621-3263 for information.

    At this time, officials said they are not concerned about a hazardous materials situation on the ground.

    Plane with 48 aboard crashes into house in suburban Buffalo - CNN.com
     
  2. v2

    v2 Well-Known Member

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    very sad...
     
  3. pbfoot

    pbfoot Active Member

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    We had temps as high as 10c over past couple of days and all the snow melted mixed with rain and then the temp dropped to close freezing . I wager it was icing . The melt was very rapid
     
  4. Njaco

    Njaco The Pop-Tart Whisperer
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    Its being reported that there was a widow of a victim from one of the 9/11 jets onboard....sad.
     
  5. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    Terrible. Condolences go out to the families.
     
  6. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    A little too early to speculate. The aircraft is FAR 25.1419 rated so it is able to operate in known icing conditions. The TAF was reporting light snow and mist 10 mile visibility with ceiling of 800' at the time of the accident. It obvious they were on an approach. All 3 ILS approaches into BUF has a 2300' ceiling at the LOM. I don't have time to look up approach minimums but I'm sure the crew knew if they were within minimums prior to the approach.

    Time will tell.
     
  7. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Terrible Tragedy - as usual the media stupidity begins..

    "Witnesses heard the twin turboprop aircraft sputtering before it went down in light snow and fog around 10:20 p.m."

    Has anyone ever heard a turbine "sputter?"

    Fiery plane crash in upstate NY kills 49 people
     
  8. evangilder

    evangilder "Shooter"
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    I thought they all "sputtered" when the pitch was changed on the prop. Damn non-aviation media...:rolleyes:

    Can you imagine the talk if it had been a Piaggio P-180? They always sound like something isn't right, even when they are fine.
     
  9. ToughOmbre

    ToughOmbre Active Member

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    Sad. Condolences to the families.

    TO
     
  10. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Some observations...

    I pulled up a website that shows the TFR for the crash site to the North East of the airport, in line with runway 23. The LOM for runway 23 is 4.4 miles from the runway threshold at 2300', missed approach altitude is 928', 200 feet above the ground, and that's for an ILS approach. The GPS approach shows FAF 4.7 miles from the threshold. It seems like that were on the approach when they went in, I don't know if its SOP for Continental to use GPS approaches or if the aircraft was equipped for GPS approaches. Again too early to speculate but prior to entering you're FAF you're doing you're final checklists and configuring the aircraft for landing. I would guess that the landing gear would probably be down and flap and power settings would be adjusted to fly the final portion of the approach.

    To drop out of the sky like its being reported I would look at the engines/ propellers, but again way too early to speculate. There was icing reported 20 miles to the south of the airport but again this aircraft should of been able to handle icing.


    [​IMG]

    Back in the mid 80s (86-87) I was flying into Buffalo constantly, this hit home to me. Condolences to the familes.
     
  11. Bill G.

    Bill G. Banned

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    This is sad news. And an end to a 2.5 year flight safety window of no fatalities.

    Here is my best GUESS. You have a plane that is low and slow. I have thought about icing, but Flyboy, you bring up an excellent point about the aircraft SHOULD be able to handle icing, if the proper equiment is turned on. I will assume it was. It was windy, very windy. Again you are low and slow. You are heading into this strong wind to land. Now what if the wind quits for a moment and leaves the plane in a full stall. This would not be good!

    Anyways, that is my GUESS!

    Bill G.
     
  12. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Low - but not too slow, but way out of stll range providing there was no ice on the wings.

    I looked up some data on this aircraft - they should of been carrying 120 knots, the Vmca for full flaps is 78 knots - I would guess depending on weight this aircraft would stall at around 75 knots.
     
  13. Gnomey

    Gnomey World Travelling Doctor
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    Very sad. My condolences to the families.
     
  14. fly boy

    fly boy Member

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    sad very sad
     
  15. Bill G.

    Bill G. Banned

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    Flyboyj:

    Thanks for the added info. And right now I am guessing at best.

    I just saw one witness say that the plane was heading away from the airport. I know ground witnesses don't always get things right.

    If that is true, you are now flying with a tail wind. Better keep a tight watch on the airspeed. And a turn can be similar to a wind shear event. Possible, but who knows yet.

    We will just have to wait until the data recorders are found and analyzed before anyone will have much of a clue as to what went so very wrong.

    All that we know for certain is the plane had a non-survivable encounter with the ground and 50 are now dead. And thinking what the families must be going through right now. Not a good day for any of them. And thinking of what the recovery teams will be going through recovering the dead. This will not be a good day for them either.

    Bill G.
     
  16. Vassili Zaitzev

    Vassili Zaitzev Well-Known Member

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    Very sad, my condolences to the victim's families.
     
  17. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    Very sad. My prayers go out to the families and the victims.
     
  18. DerAdlerIstGelandet

    DerAdlerIstGelandet Der Crew Chief
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    That is actually what I was thinking as well. Oh well the FAA guys on the ground will let us know when they know something.

    What I hate is the so called "experts" on the news that speculate about what exactly happened, when they have no clue.

    It is best to just wait...
     
  19. timshatz

    timshatz Active Member

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    More speculation.

    Stall at 2300 ft should leave plenty of room to throttle up and get going again. Probably drop 1000ft at worst. But people (plural) saw it going in nose first, not flat or pulling up.

    Could be optical illusions at play here or "heard it from a friend of a friend".

    Sad crash, not that I've heard of any that weren't. Well, maybe. Heard about a guy who hit a cow after he had landed. Wrecked the plane but he walked away without a scratch.

    Now the cow, on the other hand...
     
  20. FLYBOYJ

    FLYBOYJ "THE GREAT GAZOO"
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    Something else for thought...

    As they were pretty close to the outter marker, as stated, that would of been the time they would of been starting the approach. Be it GPS or ILS I would also think that the approach might of been coupled to the auto pilot.
     
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