Putting the P-47 back into production?

[vikingBerserker]

The concept behind ISO/TS I think is great, but something was lost between the theory and what actually resulted.

FB, I agree with you 100%. The $ spent on the auditors is in-frickin-sane (or a racket).

 

[syscom3]

I like what Dilbert has to say about it.

 

[vikingBerserker]

LMAO NICE!!!!!!!!!!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

That's getting hung up in my office tomorrow!

 

[Matt308]

That was friggin' awesome. My gosh what a farce ISO qualification has become. We had declared an ISO compliance need. Lo and behold the only "qualified" auditors were europeans. I cried foul. We can't find local auditors that we don't have to pay international airfare and benefits? You gotta be shittin' me!!!!?!?!?!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

All too true!

 

[Messy1]

Sounds like a mess.

 

[timshatz]

That was friggin' awesome. My gosh what a farce ISO qualification has become. We had declared an ISO compliance need. Lo and behold the only "qualified" auditors were europeans. I cried foul. We can't find local auditors that we don't have to pay international airfare and benefits? You gotta be shittin' me!!!!?!?!?!

Scam, Scam, Scam.....The Euros are pullin' all sorts of crap like this. It is the center of the world for beauricratic BS. The US is headed that way too.

Case in point, I have a father in law in Italy with a VW Beetle 2002, that was built in the US he brought with him when he moved back. Some odd Euro law says it is no longer fit to drive on Italian roads and he has to get rid of it and get a new Euro type car.

ISO-9000 went through my industry some years back. Then it drifted away. Wasn't worth the bang for the buck so it went the way of Six Sigma.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Scam, Scam, Scam.....The Euros are pullin' all sorts of crap like this. It is the center of the world for beauricratic BS. The US is headed that way too.

Case in point, I have a father in law in Italy with a VW Beetle 2002, that was built in the US he brought with him when he moved back. Some odd Euro law says it is no longer fit to drive on Italian roads and he has to get rid of it and get a new Euro type car.

ISO-9000 went through my industry some years back. Then it drifted away. Wasn't worth the bang for the buck so it went the way of Six Sigma.

On my contract the government wanted us to be ISO-9001 compliant - they did not want us to roll the cost of certification into the contract. I showed compliance by breaking down the ISO-9001 elements and attaching them to the applicable written procedures and documents that apply. There is a system called AS9100 that is tailored to FAA repair stations, I recommended this to be used in lieu of ISO-9001 and was ignored. So when we submitted our contract we showed ISO-9001 compliance with about 5 or 6 exceptions. In the end it was just a waste of time and money.

 

[wheelsup_cavu]

That was hilarious Sys.
At least I don't feel so bad when I think it was a waste of time and money.

Matt, I was just as incredulous when I found out about all of the auditors being Europeans.

I only tried to go through the certification process because all the purchasing agents were requiring it to bid on their contracts.
Mil-1-45208 compliant for twenty years, less than 1% rejection rate, and now if I don't get ISO I no longer have the ability or know how to make a part.
On top of this I was being told my production costs were going to be lower because ISO was so much more efficient.
Which was going to necessitate my lowering my pricing to them because they were helping me be more efficient by forcing me to implement ISO to get their contracts.
I was going to have to hire two people just to deal with the unnecessary paperwork and I am supposed to lower cost and pass it on to them.


I started in 1980 as a machinist Flyboy so I remember how all the machine shops were humming at that time.
Several of the machine shops dropped all the commercial work they did for aircraft work and then went under when the aircraft work dried up.
The aircraft companies payment schedule to their vendors left a lot to be desired too.
I tried to avoid them like the plague.
I did do aircraft work but not as a Tier one supplier. More like a Tier 3 or 4.
My main field was in the medical, dental, and scuba areas.


Wheels

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Wheels - you're example is a poster child of why ISO-9000 is a sham. I can't believe why industry allowed itself to embrace this, but then again, it is a great excuse to raise prices at the end of the day for something that is totally useless to begin with!

Oh yea, you do get a fancy certificate!

 

[renrich]

You guys are talking about the major problem of all government and why the more government involvement the less efficiency. Of course when spending tax payer money, there needs to be oversight but somehow there needs to be balance. I was a superintendant on an FHA housing project in 1963 and my framing contractor and I made a tiny change in the cornice detail to make a better and more long lasting product. The inspector noticed the change, reported it and the whole project was stopped until a bunch of change orders were processed and red tape was cut. The inspector recognised that the change was an improvement but he had to cover his ass and could not, or would not deal with it on the job. The company owner came out and reamed me and a year later I got out of building FHA-VA.

 

[Clay_Allison]

And since I now know that a low cost new plane is utterly impossible, I must reverse my field and say "just put the A-10 back into production."

Most of its parts are still produced as spares to keep existing planes in the air, so start up a new line at Fairchild and start putting together new ones to pound the ground.

The only thing that needs to change is the cannon ammunition. Switch from AP and develop a pure HE round for better anti-personnel effect.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

And since I now know that a low cost new plane is utterly impossible, I must reverse my field and say "just put the A-10 back into production."

Most of its parts are still produced as spares to keep existing planes in the air, so start up a new line at Fairchild and start putting together new ones to pound the ground.

The only thing that needs to change is the cannon ammunition. Switch from AP and develop a pure HE round for better anti-personnel effect.

Actually Fairchild doesn't exist either as a functioning aircraft manufacturer.

From what I understand depot level maintenance on the A-10 is done either at Moody AFB or Hill AFB. It's at these places where the aircraft are taken down to their bones during major overhaul which are time driven. This is the closest you're going to get right now to get the A-10 back into production. It is questionable if the original A-10 "ASSEMBLY" tooling is still around. Additionally it's not that easy to just go and open up a production like on an aircraft that was last delivered 30 years ago. You also have to find workers to build the aircraft, that involves training and i haven't even gone into engineering changes. As stated, Fairchild has no facilities, no hangars and probably doesn't even own the tooling needed to start re-producing A-10s. It's a lot more complicated than you think.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Actually Fairchild doesn't exist either as a functioning aircraft manufacturer.

As stated, Fairchild has no facilities, no hangars and probably doesn't even own the tooling needed to start re-producing A-10s. It's a lot more complicated than you think.

Yeah Fairchild was bought out by M7 Aerospace back in 2003. Prior to that though Fairchild merged with Dornier.

 

[Matt308]

Are we talking new A-10s for the USAF? Or for sales abroad? The A-10C is currently being done for the former and likely engine upgrade will follow (A-10D?). If I recall correctly the A-10C is being rewinged (new wing box) and will include various avionics/mission system upgrades (comm, target designators, etc.).

 

[Clay_Allison]

Are we talking new A-10s for the USAF? Or for sales abroad? The A-10C is currently being done for the former and likely engine upgrade will follow (A-10D?). If I recall correctly the A-10C is being rewinged (new wing box) and will include various avionics/mission system upgrades (comm, target designators, etc.).

For the USAF. I don't think we're the exporter of the future. I think the USA will drive our allies to buying foreign merchandise.

 

[GrauGeist]

And since I now know that a low cost new plane is utterly impossible, I must reverse my field and say "just put the A-10 back into production."

Most of its parts are still produced as spares to keep existing planes in the air, so start up a new line at Fairchild and start putting together new ones to pound the ground.

The only thing that needs to change is the cannon ammunition. Switch from AP and develop a pure HE round for better anti-personnel effect.

I'd definately keep the AP round for anti-armor and hard hitting missions. Nothing can really compare to a little lovin' from a warthog...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Are we talking new A-10s for the USAF? Or for sales abroad? The A-10C is currently being done for the former and likely engine upgrade will follow (A-10D?). If I recall correctly the A-10C is being rewinged (new wing box) and will include various avionics/mission system upgrades (comm, target designators, etc.).

I believe at Moody AFB

 

[FLYBOYJ]

If it would to be put back into production, Lockheed, Boeing and Northrop are the only ones with the capability, facilities and know-how.