PZL P.11

[olbrat]

I was rather surprised to learn that during the battle of Poland, the PZL P.11 was credited with at least 110 of the 285 of German aircraft that were lost. Not that it was a bad aircraft; it was considered state of the art in 1934. By 1939, however, it was seriously outclassed by the Bf 109 Bf110's and even most of Germany's bombers were faster.

I would be curious to know if the majority of the victories were due to better manueverability, tactics, pilots? something else?

 

[v2]

First Pilot's Forum - The Battle of Poland

 

[Maximowitz]

Very interesting.

 

[vikingBerserker]

The thing that really shocks me is the field of vision they had with the wing the way it was.

 

[antoni]

In the late 1920s and early 1930s, when the P.11 was designed, the vogue for fighter design was for a machine for close-in dog-fighting. The emphasis was on manoeuvrability; speed, range and altitude were of secondary importance.

The P.11 was extremely manoeuvrable. Low wing loading (about half that of a Bf 109) that characterised the P.11 was due to large wing area and low weight. This, and large diameter wheels, made it easy to operate from unprepared auxiliary airfields expected to be used in time of war. Takeoff run was short and the aircraft accelerated rapidly, processing a good rate of climb. At low speeds the aircraft was stable and easy to manoeuvre, its landing approach very steady.

Very tight turns could be made without fear of stalling. The high strength of the wings allowed for very steep dives and rapid recovery, even exceeding the pilot's ability to tolerate the acceleration forces in the dive. In a dive the aircraft could be accelerated without restrictions, its speed only limited by air resistance, Polish pilots quickly became accustomed to these attributes.

The forward and upward visibility from the cockpit in all directions was excellent due to the gull-wing design. The only problem was that the wide fuselage obstructed the view directly below, easily overcome by rocking the aircraft from side to side.

Warren Eberspacher designed, built and flew a 66% scale replica of the PZL P.11 which was flown at the 1990 Experimental Aircraft Association Flyin. Eberspacher gained a firsthand appreciation of why Polish pilots loved the P.11 when test flying the prototype.

"Taxiing on the ground was blind and required S-turns to se ahead around the radial cowling. But as soon as the tail came up on takeoff, forward visibility was excellent."

"In the air, forward and upward visibility was unobstructed and outstanding, and it ws quite a sensation looking between the gull wings as you flew and manoeuvred. You had excellent visibility straight down and aft, and rolling the wing up also gave you excellent downward and forward visibility. A rear-view mirror kept your tail cleared."

"The aircraft handled easily and effortlessly, even in its scaled down and structurally modified form, and was a joy to fly."

The exact number of kills attained by the gull-winged fighters is still unresolved. The most cited number, 126 aerial victories, was arrived at by a commission set up in 1945 in Great Britain to study the performance of the Polish Air Force during the September Campaign. A number of more recent re-evaluations of combat reports and pilot's claims give slight smaller numbers, but it is certain to say they shot down about 100 Luftwaffe aircraft and at least three Soviet fighters.

The P.11 was able to operate from improvised airfields, withstand much punishment, and even evade Luftwaffe fighters in a dogfight due to their great manoeuvrability. However, most of its victims were slow reconnaissance aircraft or bombers. Tactics varied but were mostly based on ambushes when fighters would cruise aloft hoping to shoot down any German airplanes flying nearby.

 

[Wurger]

The short note here only.... the problem of visibility forward when taxing was not the problem for P fighter series only. This is for all WW2 planes with the tail wheel and has nothing in common with an engine type.

 

[denoferth]

Does anyone have any specs or photos of Warren Eberspacher's 66% PZL P.11 Polish fighter replica or even what happened to it? I have searched the net for some time and have failed to find anything but comments about it. What about Henry Apoian's 1/4 scale P-11 from 1985? Anyone have anything on it? I seem to remember a larger scale electric powered P-7 someone flew at a Southwestern desert meet in the 1970's? Ring any bells out there? I think I saw it in RCM.

Thanks
Dennis

 

[jim]

pzl 11 and 24s also gave good service in the hands of the Greek air force against the Italians during 1940-41 and then against the germans. Scored several victories , one against an italian bomber by clipping its rudder with the propeller over the city of Thesaloniki. 20mm cannon were removed to save weight. Operated from primitive "airfields" and along Gladiators fought against overhelming odds while Greek Air Force waited desperately the material help promised by their "alleis" , Britain and USA . Shot down some german planes too.

 

[bobbysocks]

how did it stack up against an I-153? and what guns were fitted on it?

 

[Wurger]

PZL P-24s used by HAF were armed with 2x Oerlikon FF 20mm canons and 2x Colt-Browning 7.9mm machine guns or 4xColt-Browning 7.9mm MGs.

 

[parsifal]

P-11s were obsolete relative to the LW types, but they achieved a great deal, due mainly to the qulaity of the pilots flying them. Subsequently some of the pilots of the PAF fought as part of the RAF, wherer they were the highest scoring allied squadron in thye BoB.

Greek P-24s (there were no P-11s) enjoyed parity with the Italian monoplanes ranged against them, and were superior to the Biplanes of the RA. most RA bomber formatuions were unescorted.

The Rumanians used P-24w in the initial stages of Barbarossa, wheere they performed quite well, however they were soon withdrawn and grounded because of spare parts issues, and because the IAR80, a derivative of the P-24, was available from home production