Qualities that made for a great aircraft that don't show up in performance stats. (4 Viewers)

[Reluctant Poster]

Not quite right. The Spiteful had an entirely new and larger tail.

I should have said it was intended to be the laminar flow version of the XIV (the initial prototype was a converted Spitfire XIV). In fact the fuselage itself ended up being quite a bit different with a raised cockpit to improve the pilots view. The enlarged tail was added after initial testing and was also added to the final Spitfire models

 

[TheMadPenguin]

There is no word for cousin in the Russian language, your cousins are your brothers and sisters.

Please translate to English the following Russian (compound) words:
кузен
кузина
двоюродный брат
двоюродная сестра

Google translate is not hard to use.
Russian is easier for non-Russians to understand than Politics is for non-politicians to understand.

 

[Kevin J]

Please translate to English the following Russian (compound) words:
кузен
кузина
двоюродный брат
двоюродная сестра

Google translate is not hard to use.
Russian is easier for non-Russians to understand than Politics is for non-politicians to understand.

The girlfriend was half Chuvash, half Russian. That's why I misunderstood.

 

[Zipper730]

P-51D ROOT (BL17.5) AIRFOIL (p51droot-il)

16.5% thickness at 38.9 chord?

 

[XBe02Drvr]

The strength of a structure isn't determined by the thickness of its surface covering.

Except, in the case of a stressed skin monocoque structure it is entirely determined by the strength (thickness, material tensile strength, and shape) of its skin. Ever see the aft fuselage of an Ercoupe after it's been removed from the plane? It's little more than tin foil shaped into a cone (sorry, Miflyer!). I've picked one up, tailfeathers and linkages attached, with one hand. And I'm no Charles Atlas.
Cheers,
Wes

 

[Elmas]

16.5% thickness at 38.9 chord?

Exactly:
(p51droot-il) P-51D ROOT (BL17.5) AIRFOIL
P-51D root (BL17.5) airfoil
Max thickness 16.5% at 38.9% chord.
Max camber 1.3% at 68.3% chord

 

[Zipper730]

(p51droot-il) P-51D ROOT (BL17.5) AIRFOIL
P-51D root (BL17.5) airfoil
Max thickness 16.5% at 38.9% chord.
Max camber 1.3% at 68.3% chord

Is the any significance in the P-51B/C wing?

 

[Elmas]

I think that P-51 B/C had exactly the same wing profile the P-5D had, while P-51H had a modified one.

NACA 66 (p51hroot-il)

NACA 66 (p51htip-il)

 

[Zipper730]

I'm not sure if I said this earlier: The F4U was stressed for 9g normal/13.5g ultimate

 

[stug3]

From this article:
Why the U.S. Air Force did not use the F-47 Thunderbolt in the Korean War

The F-47 had internal crash skids installed in the bottom of the fuselage to help maintain structural integrity during wheels-up landings.

 

[drgondog]

I'm not sure if I said this earlier: The F4U was stressed for 9g normal/13.5g ultimate

What is your source for that G limit/Ultimate load - and a.) at what GW, b.) which load conditions (i.e. AoA loading, Landing loads, ??)

 

[drgondog]

Exactly:
(p51droot-il) P-51D ROOT (BL17.5) AIRFOIL
P-51D root (BL17.5) airfoil
Max thickness 16.5% at 38.9% chord.
Max camber 1.3% at 68.3% chord

This is included in my book:

• The NAA Team E. Horkey, I.L. Ashkenas, C.L. Davis and H.J. Hoge published NAA Report nA-5041 "Aerodynamic Load Calculations for NA-73 Airplane", dated 3-3-41, documents the aerodynamic characteristics of the wing.
• The Master Dimensions Specification MD-102-100 for P-51B/D
• Tip Chord WS = 225, Chord = 50"; Tip location = WS 233.
• Root Chord at WS= 0, Chord = 103.988 (NA-73 through P-51D/K)
• ¼ chord WS 0 to WS 215 Constant at FS 99 (Perpendicular to Fuselage Plane)
• 0 degree sweep of 25% Chord.
• Geometric Twist – Total - 1 degree, 53 minutes, 6.43 seconds
• +0 degree 59 minutes, 56.46 seconds at WS=0
• -0 degree, 53 minutes, 9.97 seconds at WS=215
• At Centerline WS (0), Max Thickness =16.13 % of local chord and at 37.21% from LE of the Root Chord.
• At Tip WS (215), Max Thickness = 11.46% of local chord and at 48.01 % from the LE of the Tip Chord.
• Max Camber and Leading-Edge Radius
• WS = 0, 1.29%
• WS = 215, 1.34%
• LE radius @ WS =0, 2.09% of Root Chord
• LE radius @ WS =215, 0.60% of Tip Chord

From NAA first, then NACA later.

Same airfoil for X73, NA-73, NA-83, NA-91, NA-97, NA-99, NA-101, NA-102, NA-103, NA-104, NA-106, NA-109, NA-110, NA-111, NA-122, NA-124.

 

[Zipper730]

What is your source for that G limit/Ultimate load - and a.) at what GW, b.) which load conditions (i.e. AoA loading, Landing loads, ??)

His knowledge of maneuvering tactics leaves a bit to be desired, but the data he has includes documentation and reports in the video.

 

[Shortround6]

The Navy played fast and loose with some of those specifications.

We can find documents that claim 13.5 ultimate load factor (9G service load?) for the Hellcat too, so the same for the F4U is certainly believable on that score.

Unfortunately the F6F is for a "designed" weight of 11,000lbs and the chances of any F6F operating anywhere near 11,000lbs (unless at the end of a ferry flight or about to land on the carrier running on fumes) is pretty low.

example of fast and loose is an early Spec for an F4U-1 in "standard" configuration and in "Overload"

Standard was 11,142lbs while overload was 12,656lbs.
Standard only included 178 gallons of fuel and 1200rounds of ammo (200rpg) and I doubt very many were ever flown that way, at least at the start of a mission.

Overload was 2350r rounds of ammo (about 344lbs more ammo) and 363 gallons of fuel (outer wing tanks full. no drop tanks)
So one can see that the 13.5 load factor (9 G service) was something of an illusion. Full internal fuel and full ammo would bring the Service load down to about 7.9 which is still very strong.

 

[Freebird]

Please translate to English the following Russian (compound) words:
кузен
кузина
двоюродный брат
двоюродная сестра

Google translate is not hard to use.

? Is that on the interweb thingy?

Yes, Russians have a word/expression for cousin....