RAAF Marking's and Codes

[Wildcat]

Eric the blue rudder with the Southern Cross emblem was used by Mustangs from No. 3 sqn RAAF. The actual squadron code should be CV. 3 sqn operated Mustangs from Italy from Nov 44 until the end of the war. I doubt they were ever painted in desert colours instead it should be the green/grey combo as used by the RAF. Some were also bare metal as Wurgs mentioned. I'm sure Gordy knows more about this then me.
Here is a pic of a restored a/c in Australia painted in the camo scheme and also a pic of a bare metal bird. Source of pics unknown.

 

[wh1skea]

Yes, and as you will notice, the a/c of 3 sqn seem so be on loan from the RAF, as they still retain the RAF serial number, instead of being issued a RAAF serial number. Hence the RAF markings, with the exception of the rudder.

 

[Wayne Little]

Andy that restored Bird looks great mate!

 

[Wurger]

I agree with Wayne.

 

[Heinz]

On the money Andy


Also that Mustang you have above with the harvard there lives 10mins away from me.

Owned by Judy Pay. Often comes roaring over my house

 

[TonyC1317]

Hi Wildcat

Do you much information on the Vultee Vengeance of 12th Sqd flown in the WWII, as I wish to make a model of the plane my father piloted. ( A27-217 ) while stationed at Cooktown, Qld.

Cheers TC

 

[Wildcat]

Hi Tony welcome to the forum.
I've had a look around but can't find much on A27-217 regarding markings. Being a 12sqn machine it would carry the NH codes of that squadron but I'm unable to find its identification letter. Maybe your Dad recorded it in his logbook? This particular aircraft only served with the RAAF for three months before your Dad ditched it off Port Douglas, so I'd imagine it wouldn't be showing the extremely weathered look on some of the longer serving Vengeances.
As far as camouflage goes, it should look as the aircraft in the below picture minus the red dots in the roundels and the red flash on the fin. Also posted are some other 12 sqn machines to give you an idea of the squadron codes etc. The trouble is going to be finding is ID letter!
I hope this is of some help

 

[Wildcat]

Here's a link with a discussion on RAAF foliage green that might come in handy to someone here.
Foliage Green - A Brief Discussion by Gary Byk and Peter Malone

 

[Ikerus]

On the Hawker Typhoon, how long did they keep the "car door" style canopy? Also looking for more details when 56 squardon was equiped with the Typhoon.

 

[Wurger]

A work on a the new "drop shaped" cockpit conopy was finished at the beginning of the 1943. As a result the slided back conopy was introduced and the "car doors" were removed from both fuselage sides. Also the mast of the radio antenna was replaced by a new stub antenna and moved back , out of the conopy area.
The first Typhoon equipped with the new cockpit conopy was R8809. It's first test flight was carried out in January 1943 and its next tests in Boscombe Down lasted untill the May of 1943. Because of a problem with a supply of new parts the assembling of the old kind of the cockpit conopy was continued untill the September 1943 ( about 300 planes ). Therefore the first Typhoons with the new cockpit conopy became planes stored in storehouses and modified by Gloster factory. The first entire new made Typhoon with the conopy was the JR333 and was testing in January 1944. Due to having many of these old cockpit conopy parts stored , there were assembled Typhoons with both conopy types on production lines. Finally all Typhoons with the old cockpit conopies were withdrawn from operational units soon after D-Day. However these were still using in training units untill the war ending.

 

[Airframes]

In answer to your 56 Squadron query, they were the first to receive Typhoons, with the Mk1A starting in September 1941, with Mk1Bs being received in March 1942. These were operated until May 1944, when the Squadron received Spitfire MkIXs for a short period, before converting to Tempests.

 

[A4K]

Great info guys!

 

[nuuumannn]

Great stuff guys. It's interesting looking at the documents on RAAF Markings that were posted; take a look at the profiles on which they illustrated the locations of markings: Gloster Gladiator, Supermarine Stranraer, Saro Lerwick and a fictional twin engined type, none of which served with the RAAF. The Glad is wearing an RAF serial 'K2457' (someone get out their copy of Air Britain's "The K File"), the Stranraer is wearing 'A278' A2-78" or "A27-8" maybe? "A2" was carried by Seagull Vs or Walrus if you're a Brit and "A27" was Vengeances. The fictional twin wears 'A16-65' and 'A28-76'. "A16-65" was a Hudson and "A28-76" was Boston. The Lerwick wears 'A24-56', which was a Catalina.

I suspect the Directorate of Technical Services got their draughtsmen to draw representative types, so the 'A278' is representative of the Seagull V serial, although I'd hate to see them launch a Stranraer from a ship's catapult! The mysterious twin representing the Hudson or Boston makes sense as does the Lerwick representing the Catalina, although I suspect the RAAF are glad they bought the latter and not the Lerwick!

Here's a pic of the RAAF Museum's Boomerang I took years ago.

An RAAF Kittyhawk here in New Zealand.

 

[Ikerus]

Thanks for the info Wurger, sorry I didnt get back to it sooner.

 

[Wurger]

No problemo... and you'r welcome.

 

[destrozas]

I do not know fully the question of the exact colors but I think this site has a lot of different references and accurate in your application.

Simmers Paint Shop - Royal Australian Air Force colorlist / RAAF aircraft colors (RGB values)

 

[AussieHoppy]

Hi floks

I see this thread has been quiet for a while, I hope there are some subscribers around

I am rebuilding a 1700mm P40N to replicate the P40 that W/O Leonard Waters flew with the RAAF with 78 Sqn, which was named "Black Magic" by the previous pilot.
Leonard flew something like 95 sorties with this bird.

The info I am trying to have clarified is...

~ did Black Magic have the aircraft serial number painted on each side of the fuselage, under the horizontal stabilizer?
I have seen photos and movie footage where there is no serial number evident on Black Magic as well as other 78 Sqn aircraft, so I don't know if it had been weathered away or had never been applied.

~ was the artwork "Black Magic" only on the left side of the cowl?
again, I have seen photos and movies where Black Magic was both clearly visible also where the letters had all but worn off the left side, yet the right side leads me to the next question...

~ was there a number on the right side of the cowl?
I have seen images of other 78 Squadron P40's with no artwork on the right side cowl, but only a clear number.
The movie footages I have viewed of Black Magic (protected by copyright) does not appear to have artwork nor this number, yet Leonard Waters' daughter Kim recently told me she recalled the number of her Father's P40 was "23"

~were there any pilot's names painted beside the cockpit?

I have confirmed the Sqn code was "HU-L / L-HU" and Black Magic aircraft serial number was A29-575

If anyone out there in cyber world can help clear these issues up, by posting the answers or pffer a link to follow or somewhere to contact, I would very much be indebted.

The reason for all this is that there are 3 of us building P40 variants from 78 Sqn... "Stormy Weather" is all but completed, "Watch My Form" has been completed, but I am still trying to find answers so I can complete my replication as historically correct as possible.
We hope to achieve some formation flight video, both ground footage as well as inflight footage.

Cheers!

 

[hub]

Hi

I don't know if this is of any use but the post office put out an aerogramme years ago with Black Magic on it.
Can't say how accurate the markings are or who the artist was.

Cheers Mike

 

[hub]

Since posting the scan of the aerogramme I found an article in a Flightpath Magazine which throws some doubt on the codes
It says A29-575 was HU-E

 

[AussieHoppy]

actually the aerogram is far closer to fact than a lot of images...
i met had a wonderful conversation with Leonard Waters' second youngest daughter yesterday, Kim gratiously gave me some archived movie footage photos, and because she has her Dad's flight log, we know for the most part he flew Black Magic A29-575 which was coded "HU-L / L-HU", which ironically is incorrect on one of the Australian Defence Force sites i looked at yesterday, saying A29-575 was HU-E. There are also photos showing Leonard with his plane which was designated "L".

Unfortunately the archived movie footage is of poor quality (as it was back in them thar days) which is a pity, because the right side of the plane in flight is in clear view, but so grainy it is difficult to see anything other than olive topsides contrast with the lighter underside
but one bit of footage on the ground shows the right side of a few 78 Sqn planes as the jeep drove past a row of them, clearly a number is on the very front/lower of cowl right side without any artwork.
so i wonder what this number signified
also very difficult to confirm, is whether the aircraft serial number was very small and worn making it difficult to see in archived photos/footage, or was it never painted on after a repaint or something... or worn off....

i have read comments during my search that there is an amount of controversy over the actual markings on Black Magic, so i have a challenge on my hands lol