RAF P-51 MK1a's, preferably RCAF
- Thread starter nsmekanik
- Start date
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fubar57
General
How about this for ideas. We can hopefully fill in more pics later...https://www.ipmscanada.com/rt-issues-text/Mustang Addendum (June 2013).pdf
- Thread starter
- #3
Crimea_River
Marshal
Good reference Geo.
fubar57
General
I have these decals for a some time in the future RCAF build...
...I think my choice is obvious. Two sources, very expensive...AeroMaster 48-106 Early Mustangs
19$ cheaper but I don't know what the shipping is from Denmark...Aeromaster 48-106 1/48 Scale Early Mustangs Model Airplane Decals
19$ cheaper but I don't know what the shipping is from Denmark...Aeromaster 48-106 1/48 Scale Early Mustangs Model Airplane Decals
Airframes
Benevolens Magister
Go online to Wing Leader publications - they've just released the latest issue of their free Wing Leader online magazine, which has a complet article, illustrated, on the early RAF Mustangs.
fubar57
General
I forgot to mention that I also have the Ultracast conversion kit for my kit
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
A FEW OF MY FAVORITES.
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Here are some neat shots:
fubar57
General
Learn something new every day here. I thought it was just the heavies that lacked the stripes
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
Lacking the stripes had its disadvantages. I read where a pair of MkI's were jumped by flight of USAAF P-51D's that thought they were Luftwaffe. They had a devil of a time escaping. You would have thought that Mustang pilots would be better at recognizing Mustangs.
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- Thread starter
- #14
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
You know, there were not many of the MkIA cannon armed versions around. NAA only built a total of150 and the RAF only got 93, 55 going to the USAAF and two going to the Merlin re-engining test program. The RAF got 50 P-51A/Mk II's to replace the MkIA's the USAAF got. In contrast they built something like 600 MkI's and 500 A-36's.
- Thread starter
- #16
Thanks alot fellas, I really appreciate the input.
Montex Masks has a super mask set for a 414 squadron MKI, AM251 Coded RU 0, pictured above as '0', $25 Canuck bucks on Ebay. A search for 414 squadron turned up Aircrew Remembered. MKIa 'M' from the Aeromaster Decal sheet is also one of the decal options in the kit, so I guess the conundrum is wether or not to spring for the Ultracast bits, or stick with the Kit option. I'll have to think on this for a bit.
Montex Masks has a super mask set for a 414 squadron MKI, AM251 Coded RU 0, pictured above as '0', $25 Canuck bucks on Ebay. A search for 414 squadron turned up Aircrew Remembered. MKIa 'M' from the Aeromaster Decal sheet is also one of the decal options in the kit, so I guess the conundrum is wether or not to spring for the Ultracast bits, or stick with the Kit option. I'll have to think on this for a bit.
Looking at Performance numbers of the P51-A.
The -81 Allison was quite a significant improvement over the earlier Marks !
How would the -81 Allison Mustang have compared against a -1 Merlin if it were installed?
stug3
Staff Sergeant
P-51A 1st Air Commando Group CBI
P-51A
P-51A 20mm
P-51A
P-51A 20mm
MIflyer
1st Lieutenant
The P-51A's single stage single speed supercharger was set up for best performance at higher altitude than the earlier versions, which varied from about 5000 ft for max speed to about 15,000 ft for the Mk1 and Mk1A. The result was that the P-51A had about the same top speed at 20,000 ft as the Spitfire IX, but above that performance would have dropped off, like it did with the FW-190A .
But of course while its top speed may have dropped off, the Spit IX's Merlin 60 series was producing plenty of power all the way up to 30,000 ft.
A two speed single stage supercharger would have been dead easy to do for the V-1710. Installation of the V-1650-1 with its two speed sngle speed supercharger, would have produced really sparkling performance and would have done the Mustang a hell of a lot more good than it did the P-40F. Neither would have been able to touch a two speed Merlin equipped P-51B, especially at high altitudes, but they still would have beat the hell out of anything else the USAAF had and could have been in production no later than around Sep 1942 - the same month where they found out what the XP-51B could do.
But of course while its top speed may have dropped off, the Spit IX's Merlin 60 series was producing plenty of power all the way up to 30,000 ft.
A two speed single stage supercharger would have been dead easy to do for the V-1710. Installation of the V-1650-1 with its two speed sngle speed supercharger, would have produced really sparkling performance and would have done the Mustang a hell of a lot more good than it did the P-40F. Neither would have been able to touch a two speed Merlin equipped P-51B, especially at high altitudes, but they still would have beat the hell out of anything else the USAAF had and could have been in production no later than around Sep 1942 - the same month where they found out what the XP-51B could do.
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Starting at the original request, none of the RCAF Squadrons operating in the ETO were equipped with the Mustang Mk.IA or Mk.II. They only operated the Mustang Mk.I. However, a number of individual RCAF pilots were attached, as were pilots from the RAAF, RNZAF, PAF, and IAF, to RAF Squadrons that did operate the Mustang Mk.IA and the Mk.II.
In early 1944, as a part of the consolidation of available/operational Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA aircraft in the Reconnaissance Wings of 83 Group and 84 Group of 2TAF, all the Squadrons operating Mustang Mk.I aircraft were placed within 39(Recce) Wing - 83 Group - which comprised No.168, No.414(RCAF) and No.430(RCAF) on Mustang Mk.I and No.400(RCAF) on Spitfire PR.XI; with 35(Recce) Wing - 84 Group - which comprised No.II(AC) Squadron and No.268 Squadron with Mustang Mk.IA INo.II(AC) Sqdn starting to re-equip with Mustang Mk.IIs in May 1944) and No.IV(AC) Squadron with Spitfire PR.XI aircraft.
The Aeromaster decals in Post 4, as do the photo descriptions in the Ducimus Camouflage & Markings publication in post 9 contain multiple errors. The Mustang Mk.I titled as being with No.400(RCAF) Squadron with the codes 63-X in yellow is actually an aircraft of No.41 OTU which was the OTU for Army Co-operation and Tactical Reconnaissance pilots. The subject aircraft serial is not recorded as ever having served with No.400(RCAF) Squadron. The source of this error seems to arise from a wartime caption of photos of a group of RCAF pilots destined for No.400(RCAF) Squadron with the Mustangs whilst they were at No.41 OTU.
The oft produced in profiles and decals FD472 'M' wearing reduced D-Day distinctive markings, not with No.168 Squadron, but with No.268 Squadron -had been since February 1944 and would remain so until struck of charge in late August 1944.
Photos as well in Post 10 - top left photo of Mustang Mk.I, No.168 Squadron RAF - this one cropped out of a quite well known photo of it over a French village with a British Armoured unit on the roads below near the Falaise Gap area August 1944. Top right, Mustang Mk.IA, most likely of No.268 Squadron RAF taken May 1944, before D-Day on a practice sortie over the UK. AG431 'D' is of No.16 Squadron RAF and shows F/O Doug Sampson RAAF beside the aircraft. Then the sequence of photos of what is supposed to be Mustang Mk.IA aircraft of No.168 Squadron, are all of No.268 Squadron RAF, all photos taken at RAF Odiham late July 1944, just before No.268 Squadron moved to an ALG in Normandy. The photos with the pilot in Mustang Mk.IA 'T' and the bottom with the staged shot of the groundcrew member near the rear window and pilot looking over the cockpit hood top section, you can't tell from those but he has a 'Canada' flash on his tunic shoulder. For a long time that led to the simple conclusion RCAF units must have operated the Mustang Mk.IA at some time. FAIL! Photo is of F/O 'Gibby' Gibson RCAF, one of the RCAF pilots attached to the RAF and flying with No.268 Squadron RAF at the time. Taken also late July 1944 at RAF Odiham.
Note too that the RAF camera mount for the recce camera was greatly simplified compared to that shown of the US version. See photos in Post 10 of 'S' and 'T'. And the recce camera did not just operate out to one side, it could be turned around to operate out to either port or starboard.
It is regularly recorded in the Operational Record Books of all the RAF Squadrons flying the Tac/R Mustangs over the beachead areas after D-Day, a number of 'blue on blue' incidents, primarily by USAAF aircraft, particularly by USAAF P-51s and P-47s, with a number of these resulting in losses. There are lesser recorded incidents of attacks by other RAF Squadrons, only a couple by Spitfires and Typhoons. The showing of roundels and use of evasion tactics semed to have a quicker result with RAF aircraft than it did with USAAF aircraft.
In early 1944, as a part of the consolidation of available/operational Mustang Mk.I and Mk.IA aircraft in the Reconnaissance Wings of 83 Group and 84 Group of 2TAF, all the Squadrons operating Mustang Mk.I aircraft were placed within 39(Recce) Wing - 83 Group - which comprised No.168, No.414(RCAF) and No.430(RCAF) on Mustang Mk.I and No.400(RCAF) on Spitfire PR.XI; with 35(Recce) Wing - 84 Group - which comprised No.II(AC) Squadron and No.268 Squadron with Mustang Mk.IA INo.II(AC) Sqdn starting to re-equip with Mustang Mk.IIs in May 1944) and No.IV(AC) Squadron with Spitfire PR.XI aircraft.
The Aeromaster decals in Post 4, as do the photo descriptions in the Ducimus Camouflage & Markings publication in post 9 contain multiple errors. The Mustang Mk.I titled as being with No.400(RCAF) Squadron with the codes 63-X in yellow is actually an aircraft of No.41 OTU which was the OTU for Army Co-operation and Tactical Reconnaissance pilots. The subject aircraft serial is not recorded as ever having served with No.400(RCAF) Squadron. The source of this error seems to arise from a wartime caption of photos of a group of RCAF pilots destined for No.400(RCAF) Squadron with the Mustangs whilst they were at No.41 OTU.
The oft produced in profiles and decals FD472 'M' wearing reduced D-Day distinctive markings, not with No.168 Squadron, but with No.268 Squadron -had been since February 1944 and would remain so until struck of charge in late August 1944.
Photos as well in Post 10 - top left photo of Mustang Mk.I, No.168 Squadron RAF - this one cropped out of a quite well known photo of it over a French village with a British Armoured unit on the roads below near the Falaise Gap area August 1944. Top right, Mustang Mk.IA, most likely of No.268 Squadron RAF taken May 1944, before D-Day on a practice sortie over the UK. AG431 'D' is of No.16 Squadron RAF and shows F/O Doug Sampson RAAF beside the aircraft. Then the sequence of photos of what is supposed to be Mustang Mk.IA aircraft of No.168 Squadron, are all of No.268 Squadron RAF, all photos taken at RAF Odiham late July 1944, just before No.268 Squadron moved to an ALG in Normandy. The photos with the pilot in Mustang Mk.IA 'T' and the bottom with the staged shot of the groundcrew member near the rear window and pilot looking over the cockpit hood top section, you can't tell from those but he has a 'Canada' flash on his tunic shoulder. For a long time that led to the simple conclusion RCAF units must have operated the Mustang Mk.IA at some time. FAIL! Photo is of F/O 'Gibby' Gibson RCAF, one of the RCAF pilots attached to the RAF and flying with No.268 Squadron RAF at the time. Taken also late July 1944 at RAF Odiham.
Note too that the RAF camera mount for the recce camera was greatly simplified compared to that shown of the US version. See photos in Post 10 of 'S' and 'T'. And the recce camera did not just operate out to one side, it could be turned around to operate out to either port or starboard.
It is regularly recorded in the Operational Record Books of all the RAF Squadrons flying the Tac/R Mustangs over the beachead areas after D-Day, a number of 'blue on blue' incidents, primarily by USAAF aircraft, particularly by USAAF P-51s and P-47s, with a number of these resulting in losses. There are lesser recorded incidents of attacks by other RAF Squadrons, only a couple by Spitfires and Typhoons. The showing of roundels and use of evasion tactics semed to have a quicker result with RAF aircraft than it did with USAAF aircraft.
