Rare Crazy Panzer Projekts.

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It was a rocket launcher that was developed by the navy for anti-submarine work. It was not a 'gun'.
 
Although I find AchtungPanzer site the most fun to browse through, it's not as accurate as the Panzerworld site of Christian Ankerstjerne.

So I took a look and first learned that there never was a Sturmtiger, its official name was the Panzersturmmörser. As the name suggest it carried a mortar gun.

But the navy bit isn't completely wrong either as the gun was developed for the navy for anti-submarine actions. It cannot be called a rocket launcher though. That's pretty obvious when you look at the gun itself...

Kris
 
Pretty much alike the british "tortoise" 8)


Anti-Aircraft vehicles on Panther chassis. (I)


In the months after the introduction of the Panther as the new Main Battle Tank of the Panzerwaffe the development for a new antiaircraft armore vehicle for escorting the panzer colums began.

The use of this heavy vehicle would provide a steadier and more capable gun plataform since the existing vehicle were improvisated means, mostly with open top armor, wich made those extremely vulnerable to artillery splinters and the aircraft mechineguns also.

The first of this proposal was the Flakpanzer Panther mit MG-151/20 Flakvierling. This introduce a new fully traversible motorized turret with 4 echeloned MG 151 mauser guns.




The turret had the cannons emplaced in pairs one above the other and off centered muzzles in order to provide a wider patter of fire. The barrels had an elevation of +75 degrees maximum and -7º minimum ( this last one allowed to engage ground targets with devastating effect against infantry and soft skinned vehicles) . Rate of fire on this weapons were 750 rpm per barrel and the stimated efective ceiling 800-900 meters.




The gun muzzle velocity vary between 705-790 m/s (see my topic on luftwaffe weapons for more) The turret armor was 100 on front and 40 mm sides, with an reinforced top of 30mm, the hull remain the same as the ausf D.




Detail on the turret:




The RLM and WaffeAmt were pleased with this desing because most of their components were well proven, it did not produce any series vehicle however, probably because the extreme need of standar Panthers. The projekt was cancelled in late 1943.
 
I also think FlakPanzers were better off to be equiped with the Flakvierling. This was a better close-range AA gun. The 37mm gun was overall better and more lethal but because a FlakPanzer should be able to hold its own versus air attacks it could handle firing at enemy aircraft at close range.

Just my 2 cents...
Kris
 

I wouldnt like to turn round a corner in my truck and see that thing!
 


Agree, after all the casualties between the panzerwaffe were produced by aircraft flying at no more than 300-500 meter, you dont need really a heavier caliber in that ceiling, but a faster one to increase the chances of hitting a target. (Rommel itself was strafed by a Spitfire flying lower than that)

Viola, le tortue:
Click to expand...

Massive, tank, Thanks

I wouldnt like to turn round a corner in my truck and see that thing!
Click to expand...

That would be 3000 round per minute coming to get you.


Anti-Aircraft vehicles on Panther chassis. (II) Flakpanzer Cölian, mit 3,7cm Flakzwilling 43:



The second stage on the desing of a antiaircraft Panther was the "Cölian" projekt of december 1943. This introduce a pair of side-by-side mounted 37mm flak 43 guns. The Flak 43 was a development of the army 37mm Flak 36, wich include several stamped and welded parts.



This made the gun more light an easy to manufacture, incidentally the Flak 43 had his rate of fire raised to 150 rpm.

The gun were mounted in a enclosed fully traversible turret with an armor of 100-40mm. Elevation vary between +86 to -5 degrees.
It had an stereoscopic rangefinder and a direct aiming device with a reflex gunsight taking the aim trough a periscope.



The rangefinder was used to calculate the range and the pericopic sight to track and aim the guns while shooting.

A subsidiary of Reinhmetall -Borsig made one real scale mock-up using an panther ausf D chassis and a dummy wooden turret.

 

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Awesome thread Charles my good man! I wonder sometimes if the Germans "waisted" too much time with fantasy projects like some seen here, when they should maybe had concentrated to improve what already had ie Panther, Tiger etc. Probably would have solved some of their problems.....but what do I know.
 

And awesome thanks Lucky. You know the germans...they were always prone to "gadgetry"


Two more images of the Cölian (extracted from "Panther variants in color-Waldemar Trojca)




Note the stereoscopic rangefinder over the left turret vision port.

 
All very interesting varients. I didn't know the true name of the Sturmtiger was other than that. Might just be what the Allies called it.
 
Probably.

Anti-Aircraft vehicles on Panther chassis. (III) Cölian 341 mit 3,7 cm Flakzwilling 44:



In November 1944 the Cölian was also proposed for the mounting of a newer weapon, that was the 3,7 cm Flakwzilling 44.


This double gun consisted in two automatic cannons Flak 44 of 37 mm, the Flak 44 was a scaled up variation of the Reinhmetall Borsig MK 103 , it was heavily modified to accept the larger 263mm case and a belt feed system. This gas operated gun shoot at 250 rpm, wich teorically gave a 500 rpm in the twin emplacement.
The gun barrel emplacement jackets and mantlet were modified with respect to the earlier Cölian.

In here the polish illustrator Josef Kolacha made a little mistake, the barrel could not achieve fully 90º in elevation but 82º.







Again this projekt did not manage to get the production line because two reason:

A) There was problems with the belt feed in the maximum elevation of the barrel.

B) The Waffeamt was searching for a more powerful weapons because they felt that a 40 tons vehicle should be armed with heavier than 37 mm auto cannons.

Another camo scheme for this flakpanzer. ( modellers beware)

 
Oh, thanks Matt.


Sturmpanther.

Late in the war, numerous proposals were made for mounting medium to large caliber weapons on the Panther chassis. One of these was to mount the 15cm StuH43/1 in the Panther turret creating a Panther equivalent to the Brummbär, but with a fully traversing turret. The initial proposal was made by Krupp, while Alkett was working on a similar proposal using the Sturmgeschütz III chassis. Krupp proposed using the commander's cupola from a Tiger and the gunsight of the Maus on the Sturmmörser Panther.





​
Given the size and expense of the Panther chassis, one must question the validity of the Krupp proposal. Long barreled versions of 15cm weapons could be mounted on the Panther chassis, therefore mounting the short 15cm StuH43/1 in the Panther seems to be a waste of material. The vehicle never made it off of the drawing board before the end of hostilities.

 
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