Should the British Empire supported the CSA?

[The Basket]

Why didn't the British Empire support the confederacy?
What would have happened if it did?
Was Washington aware of such a prospect?

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

The Brits were anti-slavery by this time, having outlawed it for themselves several decades earlier. They were happy trading for cotton but had trouble getting it once the Union blockade took hold. Once the trade started drying up, British interest in the CSA's survival waned, especially after the Emancipation Proclamation made the war explicitly about abolition.

 

[SaparotRob]

I think Britain may have also come up with an alternate source of cotton. Not up on the Civil War.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

I think Britain may have also come up with an alternate source of cotton. Not up on the Civil War.

Egypt and India. And the Brits learned that Egyptian cotton was cheaper than American.

 

[The Basket]

We could have taken back our colonies!

 

[SaparotRob]

As someone posted here, the former royals have a kid. The child grows up and becomes President. England wins!
Way to play the long game, George III.

 

[nuuumannn]

We could have taken back our colonies!

Erm, the Governor of the Falkland Islands would like to remind you of something...

 

[pbehn]

As someone posted here, the former royals have a kid. The child grows up and becomes President. England wins!
Way to play the long game, George III.

George Washington's family name comes from a small town/village in Northern England where his ancestors were the ruling barons after the Norman invasion, I know this because prior to going "up north" to Washington they were called the barons of Hartburn, Hartburn was/is a village in northern England now a part of Stockton, as is Billingham where rochie resides. Funny how these people manage to keep themselves and their families in charge of things over centuries and continents.

 

[nuuumannn]

Funny how these people manage to keep themselves and their families in charge of things over centuries and continents.

Yup, Rochie's still in charge in the kitchen! You don't mess with the Head Chef.

 

[rochie]

Yup, Rochie's still in charge in the kitchen! You don't mess with the Head Chef.

too f#####g right !

 

[Cal-Aero]

Why didn't the British Empire support the confederacy?
What would have happened if it did?
Was Washington aware of such a prospect?

I was watching a discussion on this a while back. One of those history lectures on television.
Anyway, the question was posed to English member on the panel, and her response was, if England had come in on the side of the CSA, the war would have gone poorly for the USA., and this discussion would be in German.


kjf

 

[The Basket]

That would be a good discussion.
No doubt the USA with our CSA allies would have been crushed by the full weight of the most powerful empire the world has ever seen.

But wasn't. I don't need sleep. I need answers.

 

[SaparotRob]

It was Maggie who shot Mr. Burns.

 

[The Basket]

It was Maggie who shot Mr. Burns.

I've just done some physical activity so give me a minute. Need to recover over here.

 

[The Basket]

I am reading stuff so getting a feel for it.

USA and British Empire were actually on good terms before the war. The biggest fear was that UK and France would recognize and support the CSA.

The Trent Affair was a good example of keeping UK sweet.

UK had nothing to gain. And in many ways nothing to lose. So best outcome would be for both side to kill each other.

I have read some garbage on the internet which is mind boggling stupid. The idea the USN was going to build a fleet to match and defeat the RN was utter bilge. Problem is the UK could be defeated on land. But was invincible at sea.

So UK had bigger fish to fry. Guy called Bismarck for one. So to send the British army and navy against USA could leave the Empire wide open to alsorts. So again not worth it.

So the worst option is neither here nor there.

Since there is nothing of any real interest within the civil war either way.

So 3 steps.
Large build up of forces in Canada
Support CSA fully
Break the naval blockade.

USA has to make peace with CSA so the CSA exists. Not 100% British Empire could defeat the USA without amassing huge forces which it couldn't afford to do. India and wotnot.

So the British Empire joining the war would mean the CSA remains to exist. But so does the USA.

 

[swampyankee]

I think Britain may have also come up with an alternate source of cotton. Not up on the Civil War.

It did, including Egypt and India.

 

[The Basket]

The Empire did get cotton from Egypt India and Brasil but it was only about 50% of raw materials so the cotton towns were hit hard. However once the war ended the trade stated up again.

The cotton trade was important but it was only a fraction of the British economy. So while important it wasn't deadly. That's why you have a mixed economy. Egypt on the other hand went all in on cotton and when the price collapsed then so did Egypt.

The American civil war caused the collapse of the Egyptian economy and the subsequent occupation by Britain. Go figure!

It blows my mind.

Southern cotton was about 80% of import to England. So the South believed that Britain cannot survive without the white gold and so the British would support the confederacy. This turned out to be not the case.

Britain outlawed slavery but readily accepted cotton from the South. Hmmm....

 

[Greg Boeser]

Nothing to see here. Move along.
Human nature does not change. A bargain is a bargain as long as we overlook the true costs paid by others.

 

[swampyankee]

A second question -- beyond slavery -- is whether any European polity would accept the concept of a regional independence movement, especially one of the members of the [Un]"Holy Alliance," such as the UK, which were all based around antipathy to separatist movements of any sort.

Interestingly, the people who were most likely to suffer economic damage from the loss of cotton from traitorous regions of the US also seemed to be the least supportive of the slaveocrats. See British Opinion · British Involvement in the American Civil War · HST 325 - U.S. Foreign Relations to 1914 (MSU)

 

[Shortround6]

From wiki:

• Crimean War 1853–1856
• Anglo-Persian War 1856–1857
• Second Opium War 1856–1860
• Indian Rebellion 1857–1858

A few more wars in the 1860s but after the decision point to help the CSA or not.

While some of these wars were small in number of British forces involved the British may have been reluctant to get into another war with a poor prospect of getting anything major out of it.