Since this is an international forum,any concern about whats going on in the Ukraine?
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parsifal
Colonel
its complicated, and the ukraine is in the middle of it all
Lucky13
Forum Mascot
Have to say that, I am a tad worried....
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Indeed, Cold War 2, and if it goes from safeties off.., it could be anything from a two to five way brawl depending on who decides to tag team or independant for their own reasons too.
statement issued by the G7
We, the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States and the President of the European Council and President of the European Commission, join together today to condemn the Russian Federation's clear violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, in contravention of Russia's obligations under the UN Charter and its 1997 basing agreement with Ukraine. We call on Russia to address any ongoing security or human rights concerns that it has with Ukraine through direct negotiations, and/or via international observation or mediation under the auspices of the UN or the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe. We stand ready to assist with these efforts.
We also call on all parties concerned to behave with the greatest extent of self-restraint and responsibility, and to decrease the tensions.
We note that Russia's actions in Ukraine also contravene the principles and values on which the G-7 and the G-8 operate. As such, we have decided for the time being to suspend our participation in activities associated with the preparation of the scheduled G-8 Summit in Sochi in June, until the environment comes back where the G-8 is able to have meaningful discussion.
We are united in supporting Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and its right to choose its own future. We commit ourselves to support Ukraine in its efforts to restore unity, stability, and political and economic health to the country. To that end, we will support Ukraine's work with the International Monetary Fund to negotiate a new program and to implement needed reforms. IMF support will be critical in unlocking additional assistance from the World Bank, other international financial institutions, the EU, and bilateral sources.
We, the leaders of Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the United Kingdom and the United States and the President of the European Council and President of the European Commission, join together today to condemn the Russian Federation's clear violation of the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, in contravention of Russia's obligations under the UN Charter and its 1997 basing agreement with Ukraine. We call on Russia to address any ongoing security or human rights concerns that it has with Ukraine through direct negotiations, and/or via international observation or mediation under the auspices of the UN or the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe. We stand ready to assist with these efforts.
We also call on all parties concerned to behave with the greatest extent of self-restraint and responsibility, and to decrease the tensions.
We note that Russia's actions in Ukraine also contravene the principles and values on which the G-7 and the G-8 operate. As such, we have decided for the time being to suspend our participation in activities associated with the preparation of the scheduled G-8 Summit in Sochi in June, until the environment comes back where the G-8 is able to have meaningful discussion.
We are united in supporting Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, and its right to choose its own future. We commit ourselves to support Ukraine in its efforts to restore unity, stability, and political and economic health to the country. To that end, we will support Ukraine's work with the International Monetary Fund to negotiate a new program and to implement needed reforms. IMF support will be critical in unlocking additional assistance from the World Bank, other international financial institutions, the EU, and bilateral sources.
Words, words, words. When push comes to shove the Russian Federation will get away with intervention in the Ukraine because there is neither the will nor the means for NATO and the West to do anything about it.
Suspended from the G8, I bet Putin is quaking in his boots. His policy is not just popular with ethnic Russians within the Ukraine (over 8 million of them, almost 1 in 5 of the total Ukrainian population and a large majority in the Crimea), it's popular at home.
Cheers
Steve
Suspended from the G8, I bet Putin is quaking in his boots. His policy is not just popular with ethnic Russians within the Ukraine (over 8 million of them, almost 1 in 5 of the total Ukrainian population and a large majority in the Crimea), it's popular at home.
Cheers
Steve
michaelmaltby
Colonel
Who's up on the International Space station right now ....?
razor1uk
Staff Sergeant
Well after Sochi, Russia wants to spend its goodwill capital (in its own eyes) it earned perhaps, that and we don't know what the 'running man' promised the Kremlin.
Though I haven't heard of Russia yet advising restraint and caution to the Ethnic Russians their associated civilian/militia groups within Ukraine; who have certainly helped escalate things more than the non-Russians have.
It'd appear the running man shot the bolt when the marksmen opened up last week - giving him the benifit of some doubt on that aspect - he might have told them to fire above their heads, but in a crowd doing so will hit others. Then again he knew that having expropirated such funds for his Caliguan retreat, he risked a irksome mob if they got to him.
I offer praise to the Ukrainian people of all its ethnicities for acting 90% in a correct and proper civil manner to each other, and the public ad-hoc guards who kept peace and order for their nation in such a considered and apparently law abbiding way too.
Lets hope that things proceed in such a manner as shown exemplified for the large part by the Ukrainians. As for the talk of skin heads, Russia has much more of them population wise, so using that as an excuse is grasping at straws in my mind.
As for the EU's role in all this, well a consortium of many backgrounds rarely acts in the general good so well as the hope and advertise they do, their hands too are not totally clean in this debacle either methinks.
Apologies if this offends, if asked I will always edit if required too within the remit of frees peech and free opinion.
Though I haven't heard of Russia yet advising restraint and caution to the Ethnic Russians their associated civilian/militia groups within Ukraine; who have certainly helped escalate things more than the non-Russians have.
It'd appear the running man shot the bolt when the marksmen opened up last week - giving him the benifit of some doubt on that aspect - he might have told them to fire above their heads, but in a crowd doing so will hit others. Then again he knew that having expropirated such funds for his Caliguan retreat, he risked a irksome mob if they got to him.
I offer praise to the Ukrainian people of all its ethnicities for acting 90% in a correct and proper civil manner to each other, and the public ad-hoc guards who kept peace and order for their nation in such a considered and apparently law abbiding way too.
Lets hope that things proceed in such a manner as shown exemplified for the large part by the Ukrainians. As for the talk of skin heads, Russia has much more of them population wise, so using that as an excuse is grasping at straws in my mind.
As for the EU's role in all this, well a consortium of many backgrounds rarely acts in the general good so well as the hope and advertise they do, their hands too are not totally clean in this debacle either methinks.
Apologies if this offends, if asked I will always edit if required too within the remit of frees peech and free opinion.
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bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
guess we will find out the value of "talk" which our president is big on. i think Putin felt the global political atmosphere was at a point where he could exploit it. were there different leaders in office in certain countries he may not have made this move. that is about all i will say for fear this thread gets way too political and gets locked down.
Russia need to sell oil and Gas to Europe. Europe needs Russian oil and gas! Oh and the British foreign minister just realised he doesnt really have any armed forces anymore.
Invading neighbours is costly
just read this
Russia's MICEX stock exchange later lost up to 10% of its value when it opened for business - later extending those losses to 12.5% by mid-afternoon - while Russia's central bank reacted to a plunge in the value of the ruble by raising its core interest rate to 7% from 5.5%.
Invading neighbours is costly
just read this
Russia's MICEX stock exchange later lost up to 10% of its value when it opened for business - later extending those losses to 12.5% by mid-afternoon - while Russia's central bank reacted to a plunge in the value of the ruble by raising its core interest rate to 7% from 5.5%.
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bobbysocks
Chief Master Sergeant
well in the us the dow is down 150 - 170 points but gold and silver arent jumping traumatically.
Yeah, the Russian exchange + the rouble dropped markedly. Britain has stopped sending anyone but athletes to the Paralympics in Sochi (bit pointless really).
Be interesting to see what happens with the expiration of the latest deadline at 03:00GMT.
The West is unlikely to anything more than sanctions. As to Ukraine, I can see it being split down ethnic lines with half becoming part of Russia and the other bit staying independent (and likely bankrupt).
Be interesting to see what happens with the expiration of the latest deadline at 03:00GMT.
The West is unlikely to anything more than sanctions. As to Ukraine, I can see it being split down ethnic lines with half becoming part of Russia and the other bit staying independent (and likely bankrupt).
parsifal
Colonel
basic problems are
1) Russia has always wanted parts of the ukraine back, specificaly the crimea
2) Crimea is ethnically Russian and majority want union with Russia. They were forcibly grafted onto the Ukraine SSR in 1954, but ethnically have never been part of the Ukr. At stake is the big naval faility at Sevastopol
3) Ukr opted for independance 1990s, but still want cheap oil and gas. Russians will only sell product to them for full market price.
4) Russians are breaking just about every traty they have with Ukr and are acting like thugs by simply moving troops in unnannounced
5) US and EU re4sponse is weak and disjointed. Putin is acting decisively and may be tempted to act rashly because of EU impotence.
Does not look good at all
1) Russia has always wanted parts of the ukraine back, specificaly the crimea
2) Crimea is ethnically Russian and majority want union with Russia. They were forcibly grafted onto the Ukraine SSR in 1954, but ethnically have never been part of the Ukr. At stake is the big naval faility at Sevastopol
3) Ukr opted for independance 1990s, but still want cheap oil and gas. Russians will only sell product to them for full market price.
4) Russians are breaking just about every traty they have with Ukr and are acting like thugs by simply moving troops in unnannounced
5) US and EU re4sponse is weak and disjointed. Putin is acting decisively and may be tempted to act rashly because of EU impotence.
Does not look good at all
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The excuse that the Ukraine has an ethnic Russian population, therefore belongs to Russia is a thinly veiled excuse to grab more territory.
Putin is nothing more than a Khruschev wannabe.
Putin is nothing more than a Khruschev wannabe.
Borders move all the time. Worst case scenario for the Ukraine is a Balkan style 'civil' war with the country dividing along ethnic lines.
The West will just stand on the side lines complaining. Some sanctions will be introduced, but even that will be half hearted. We need Russia's oil and particularly gas. About 30% of Europe's gas comes from Russia via the Ukraine and that sort of quantity cannot be made up by other large exporters like Norway.
Cheers
Steve
Crimea_River
Marshal
On a purely selfish note, I can see my retirement funds taking a beating yet again.......
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michaelmaltby
Colonel
"...We need Russia's oil and particularly gas."
What's wrong with your own oil and gas ....?
What's wrong with your own oil and gas ....?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Well, it's a can of worms no matter how you look at it.
If the Balkan countries step in to help the Ukraine, they will be sorely outclassed by the Russian military and will invite all sorts of disaster.
If the western European countries step in to help the Ukraine, it will most certainly escelate into something ugly (think along the lines of WWI)
If the U.S. gets involved...well, we can see where this will go.
However, if Russia is not challenged one way or another, then Putin has the Hitlarian option to keep nudging here and there until something does end up happening...
