Since this is an international forum,any concern about whats going on in the Ukraine?

[bobbysocks]

"The excuse that the Ukraine has an ethnic Russian population, therefore belongs to Russia" is a thinly veiled excuse to grab more territory.

i agree...echos of hitler and the sudetenland....

"5) US and EU response is weak and disjointed. Putin is acting decisively and may be tempted to act rashly because of EU impotence."

think so too....

will the resolution result in a split of the ukr....where crimea becomes its own country? this really has a ring in my ears of early hilter with annexing countries and the poland ordeal. interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

I will stay out of this for the most part, as I see this becoming too political.

I will however say this...

The US needs to stay the hell out of it. Let the EU stand up and police their own regions.

If the US gets involved, half of Europe will scream about how evil and war mongering the US is. If the US does not get involved, half of Europe will scream about how the US is not doing anything at all. You can't win. Stay the hell out of it, let Europe police itself. We have taken part in one to many conflicts and not another US soldier should put their life at risk. We have our own problems at home right now.

 

[parsifal]

thats what maggie thatcher said about peace in the middle east, close the borders, restricted arms shipments, let em fight it out amongst themselves until theyve had their fill

whatever you thought of her, that foreign policy idea made sense.

 

[vikingBerserker]

I think it's a gamble that in the end Putin will lose.

 

[GrauGeist]

I think it's a gamble that in the end Putin will lose.

But, at what cost?

 

[razor1uk]

...on a lighter note didn't the Pet Shop Boy's do a song that had a vague
soviet anthem styled song called 'Go West', ..but who was it for; the Bear or the Trident?

 

[Torch]

Whats going to stop Russia from going all the way to Odessa,another major rail hub,seaport and pipeline control?. If that happens they control just about anything important in that area...

 

[buffnut453]

If I was a squaddie in either of these units, I'd be getting a bit nervous:

11 Light Brigade
19 Light Brigade

Thankfully, neither unit rides on horses any more although both have cavalry elements...really, really hope history isn't going to repeat itself in the Crimea!

 

[stona]

"...We need Russia's oil and particularly gas."

What's wrong with your own oil and gas ....?

Nowhere near enough. We import substantial amounts, I believe most from Norway but a lot from Russia. 40% of Germany's oil and gas comes from Russia. Russian fossil fuels power Europe's most successful industrial economy, it really is a simple as that.

It's hardly surprising that none of the EU heavyweights, notably governments in Berlin, Paris and London, want anything to do with any kind of meaningful sanctions. No one wants to do anything that might endanger the fragile recovery evident in their own economies.

The US Senate made it clear that it won't go it alone despite Obama's rather vague threats. When Obama makes threats most Europeans just roll there eyes anyway, which is hardly surprising.

As I said before, the Russian Federation will get away with this and Putin knows it.

Cheers

Steve

 

[razor1uk]

I somewhat think your correct on that one Stona, though Vlad (the Imperator) is partly doing this to keep the Russian neo-fascists/pro-Sovietists under some control via the argument of appealing to their nationalistic tendancies too; as much as trying to keep his economy from sinking furthe than France's 95%ish GDP to national debt levels.

 

[marconi]

Hey, everyone!
I haven't been here for a long time, but this is the only military forum I am registered to, so I'd like to ask you a question.
Russian forces in Crimea don't wear any Russian insignia and deny their affiliation to Russia. Does this makes them unlawful combatants or mercenaries according to law?

 

[GrauGeist]

The 1949 Geneva Conventions state that "it is unlawful for belligerents to engage in combat without meeting certain requirements, such as wearing distinctive uniform or other distinctive signs visible at a distance" as well as "Impersonating soldiers of the other side by wearing the enemy's uniform is allowed, though fighting in that uniform is unlawful perfidy"

"distinctive signs" means national identity (flag or other distinctive, internationally recognized identifier)

 

[Marcel]

The US needs to stay the hell out of it. Let the EU stand up and police their own regions.

Oh god. If that's the way then god help the Ukraine. The EU is nothing but a bunch of indecisive politicians. The thing they are good at is ruining strong economies to finance the corruption of others. They are too divided to do anything.

At this moment, the Easter Europeans want to follow the hard line. They should know, they've dealt with the bastards for a couple of decades. The Western European countries like my own want to be softy as we should not upset tovarishch Putin. THe worst thing we can think of is not sending a minister to paralympics. It doesn;t do any good apart form keeping a minister form his well earned vacation.

So far my political rant. I too will stay out of this now.

 

[stona]

I will however say this...

The US needs to stay the hell out of it. Let the EU stand up and police their own regions.

And we thought that isolationism was dead

Any policing would be done by the U.N. and that would involve N.A.T.O. both of which organisations the U.S.A. belongs to.

It won't come to that anyway.

Cheers

Steve

 

[stona]

The EU is nothing but a bunch of indecisive politicians. ......... They are too divided to do anything.

And the US is different how exactly?

Cheers

Steve

 

[razor1uk]

Tovarisch?
..Marcel, I think you got the wrong translated meaning of what you meant to say, as Putin isn't akin to blood brother who's sworn to guard your own back Marcel? (like a police 'partner' but, oathed together in friendship) ...assuming that the Romanian Tovaresh is similar to the cyrillic-slavian word in ethos, and concept.

Perhaps you were trying to say Comrade in an ironic tone of implied frustrated anger of the situation - and yep the EU is just as much headless birds running around not quite knowing what to do as political groaping back and forth plays out.
I think most in the current situation, are feeling like that too(; I do), even for those that hide it behind kremlin sized wall of propaganda in some way too.

 

[Torch]

Think Putin just needed a trigger to get his hands back on the Ukraine,if he was so concerned about Crimeas population why not just ask the UN to provide peace keepers to cover Crimeas Russian interest. Considering it seems like there was no violence towards anybody from the Ukraines side...

 

[michaelmaltby]

"....And the US is different how exactly?"

They have long bankrolled the Alliance that was created to help stop this revisionist-USSR re-incarnation from spreading into western Europe's precious "Civilization". With precious little appreciation from their proteges. Great Britain is the exception historically, but for how long ...?

Why is Europe such a basket case .... over governed, ruled by bureaucrats, afraid to develop domestic resources like TIGHT gas and oil ... willing to be swung like a cat by your energy "dealer" ...?

What price are you willing to pay to rebuff Vlad ...?


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/w...sanctions-by-us-for-crimea-crisis.html?hp_r=1

 

[parsifal]

Think Putin just needed a trigger to get his hands back on the Ukraine,if he was so concerned about Crimeas population why not just ask the UN to provide peace keepers to cover Crimeas Russian interest. Considering it seems like there was no violence towards anybody from the Ukraines side...

Thats not how the Russians see it. There are scores dead, on both sides, president has been forcibly removed, new Ukrainian regime has been threatening reprisals on Russian minirities. Russians are very sensitive to that sort of thing.

Doesnt excuse what Putin is doing. hes exploiting the situation, but neither is it valid to paint the ukrainians as the innocent party in all of this. They are as up to their necks in scheming as the russians

 

[michaelmaltby]

".....They are as up to their necks in scheming as the russians.."

And happy to have their heating bills subsidized by Russia. Ukraine needs to man-up to its situation and discover their inner-Poland.