some F35 info

Probably the best part of concept the design of the F35 is that is the only fifth/sixth generation fighter with a single engine, I dont understand why the ruskies with their tradition of budget jagers didnt produce any design yet to compite with the F35 with that same concept.

'Cos Russian combat aircraft need 2 engines so that, if one engine fails, the second can carry the aircraft to the scene of the crash?

Sorry...couldn't resist. In reality, I think Russian engines are improving, reliability-wise, compared to where they once were.

To install twin jets it would have to be totally redesigned, different concept, different plane

buffnut453 said:

'Cos Russian combat aircraft need 2 engines so that, if one engine fails, the second can carry the aircraft to the scene of the crash?

Sorry...couldn't resist. In reality, I think Russian engines are improving, reliability-wise, compared to where they once were.

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The russians were extremely succesful in the Cold war with the single engine MIG 21 and lesser degree with the Mig 23 , also in the export market. Considering the high price of the F35 probably they could sell some single engine competitor cheaper than the Mig-35, Su-30, Su-35 family. For most countries the new generation twin engine fighter is too costly to maintain.

True enough, Charles. But since then, the Russians have focused on twin-engined combat aircraft. There's no direct equivalent to the F-16, the nearest in capability terms being the MiG-29. Engine technology (lack of thrust, lack of reliability or both) has to be a factor in the decision-making that led to every modern Russian combat aircraft having 2 engines.

CharlesBronson said:

The russians were extremely succesful in the Cold war with the single engine MIG 21 and lesser degree with the Mig 23 , also in the export market. Considering the high price of the F35 probably they could sell some single engine competitor cheaper than the Mig-35, Su-30, Su-35 family. For most countries the new generation twin engine fighter is too costly to maintain.

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Most first generation jets had two engines because of low thrust-to-weight and reliability issues.

During the cold war, the U.S. had extremely powerful and successful single engine types.

As technology improved, it allowed more fuel efficient and light weight engines that have a tremendous thrust-to-weight ratios, so installing two engines in an airframe allows for increased performance over a single engine.

With the introduction of the F-35's engine, I think we're going to see a trend in single engined warplanes becoming mainstream once again.

Whatever happened to the royalty dispute that was between Yak and the F35 programme on the vectoring thrust nozzle? Just interested

ww2restorer said:

Whatever happened to the royalty dispute that was between Yak and the F35 programme on the vectoring thrust nozzle? Just interested

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What dispute was that?

On the thrust vectoring nozzle design. The Yak 141 had the system in 1989 and is almost identical to the F35, I have some pics somewhere.

ww2restorer said:

On the thrust vectoring nozzle design. The Yak 141 had the system in 1989 and is almost identical to the F35, I have some pics somewhere.

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The main component of the F-35B's V/STOL ability is a engine powered lift fan. If you compare the thrust vectoring nozzle of both aircraft, they are very different in design.




Yak 141
"All three engines were controlled through an interlinked digital system, which was capable of controlling both engine start-up as well as modulating the thrust of all three engines during landing and hovering flight. Twin tandem reaction control jets were positioned at the wingtips, while a swiveling yaw jet was positioned under the nose"

F-35B

"While the lift fan is providing downward thrust near the front of the aircraft, an amazing assembly called the "three-bearing swivel duct" produces another 20,000 pounds of downward thrust from the engine's exhaust at the rear of the aircraft, and controls the aircraft's pitch attitude.


The swivel duct is composed of several attached, overlapping pieces that swivel at angles to each other with the aid of ball bearings. It can direct the engine's exhaust air anywhere in a 105-degree continuous range from straight back through directly down to slightly forward. Pointed downwards, the duct looks like a stubby elephant's trunk."

Thanks FlYboyj, I am very aware of the system.


this is the Yak141 Nozzle 1989.


this is the F35B nozzle, current day.



Comparison of the two aircraft. You can see clear the fan of the F35 and the thrust turbines of the Yak.

From my old memory, at the collapse of Russia in 1992, Yak was in negotiations with Northrop for the system and progressing well until the issue of royalties for the design surfaced. My original question was, what happened to this issue, apparently resolved.

I have many friends (including a former room mate) who was on the X-35 program and went on (briefly) to the F-35 production program. I'll ask them about Northrop's piece of the F-35 and see if it involves the nozzle.

Great info!

Using wedge-shaped pieces of duct to alter angles is hardly an original concept, even in the 1980's.

The first successful vectored thrust aircraft was the Bell X-14 which first flew in 1957 and was used as a testbed for data and engine tests through 1981.

Correction!!! Should have stated Lockheed Martin. Sorry, my bad. Also found the below article on the net.

Published on Aug 2, 2013

The Yakovlev Yak-141 (NATO reporting name Freestyle), also known as the Yak-41, is a supersonic vertical takeoff/landing (VTOL) fighter aircraft designed by Yakovlev. It did not enter production.[1]

Following the announcement by the CIS on September 1991 that it could no longer fund development of the Yak-41M, Yakovlev immediately entered into discussions with several foreign partners who could help fund the program (a tactic they were also pursuing for development of the Yak-130 trainer, which was eventually developed in partnership with Aermacchi of Italy). Lockheed Martin, which was in the process of developing the X-35 for the US Joint Strike Fighter program, quickly stepped forward, and with their assistance 48-2 was displayed at the Farnborough Air show in September 1992. Yakovlev announced that they had reached an agreement with Lockheed-Martin for funds of $385 to $400 million for three new prototypes and an additional static test aircraft to test improvements in design and avionics. Planned modifications for the proposed Yak-41M included an increase in STOL weight to 21,500 kg (47,400 lb). One of the prototypes would have been a dual-control trainer. Though no longer flyable, both 48-2 and 48-3 were exhibited at the 1993 Moscow air show. The partnership began in late 1991, though it was not publicly revealed by Yakovlev until 6 September 1992, and was not revealed by Lockheed-Martin until June 1994.[1]

The Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II is a family of single-seat, single-engine, fifth generation multirole fighters under development to perform ground attack, reconnaissance, and air defense missions with stealth capability.[7][8] The F-35 has three main models; the F-35A is a conventional take off and landing variant, the F-35B is a short take-off and vertical-landing variant, and the F-35C is a carrier-based variant.

The F-35 is descended from the X-35, the product of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) program. It is being designed and built by an aerospace industry team led by Lockheed Martin. The F-35 took its first flight on 15 December 2006. The United States plans to buy 2,443 aircraft. The F-35 variants are intended to provide the bulk of its tactical airpower for the U.S. Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy over the coming decades.

JSF development is being principally funded by the United States with additional funding from partners. The partner nations are either NATO members or close U.S. allies. The United Kingdom, Italy, Israel, Netherlands, Australia, Canada, Norway, Denmark, and Turkey are part of the development program; Japan has ordered the F-35, while Singapore may also equip their air force with the F-35

gumbyk said:

Using wedge-shaped pieces of duct to alter angles is hardly an original concept, even in the 1980's.

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Depends what you are doing and if it has a patient.

The Yak-141 nozzle certainly has a more agricultural look to it. Or is it steampunk...?

Steampunk - had to look that one up.
Learn something new every day.

Recent test with the GAU-22/U gunpod.


Just for comparison: GAU-12/U gunpod test some 36 years ago.