some F35 info

davparlr · Feb 25, 2021

This may be an anathema to many but I think the manned air superiority fighter is ending it reign. With the advent of smarter and smarter weapons along with increased range and increased maneuverability, add sophisticated artificial intelligence, and manned aircraft wouldn't stand a chance. Take a B-52 type, or a stealthy B-2/21 type with 50+long range hypersonic air-to-air missiles associated to a powerful jointstars type aircraft with a powerful low probability of intercept radar coupled to a multichannel processing and control capability. Can you imagine the amount of airspace that could be controlled and be made effectively a no fly zone for improper coded aircraft?

FLYBOYJ · Feb 25, 2021

"Cheap" Be careful - you get what you pay for!

Glider · Feb 25, 2021

FLYBOYJ said:
Great points, but remember, the F-35A was never intended to be a dedicated air-to-air platform although some at LMCO tried to push that role a little too much IMO.

Totally agree. What the USA seemed to have forgotten are the lessons of the F5E and the F16. Neither were as good as there contemporaries the F4 and the F15, but both were highly capable, cheap and sold by the bucketful. And for a lot of nations the F16 was their primary combat aircraft.

I suspect we all agree that the vast majority of missions undertaken in Afghanistan and Libya didn't and don't need the capability of the F35, and that I suggest is the sort of aircraft needed.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Feb 25, 2021

Glider said:
When I stand back and look at it, three things spring to mind

1) Did the F35 fail?
No, it didn't. A lot of countries use it as their primary front line fighter / bomber and it meets every criteria

2) Can it replace all the F15 and F16 aircraft currently in the USAF Inventory?
No, it is too expensive. Not even the USA can afford the sort of money that would be involved.

3) Does the USA need something new to fill the gap
Yes it does

The F15 and F16 and now pretty much fifty year old designs, they may be very effective fifty year old designs, but they are fifty years old. There are a number of other aircraft in service such as the Typhoon and Gripen that have advantages over the F15 and F16 which could in theory be used to fill the gap. However the USA is more than capable of quickly and relatively cheaply building equivalent or even better aircraft using modern materials. If the politicians stay out of the way and senior officers remember that there not going to get an F35 Mk 2 anything is possible.

One thing though. The F-35 was never meant to replace the F-15. That was what the F-22 was for, although it never did. It simply complimented (but the 22 is still the most potent air superiority fighter in existence). The F-35 was meant to replace the F-16 and the A-10.

Oh, one more thing...

Go Raptor!

buffnut453 · Feb 26, 2021

Glider said:
I suspect we all agree that the vast majority of missions undertaken in Afghanistan and Libya didn't and don't need the capability of the F35, and that I suggest is the sort of aircraft needed.

The problem is the current threats are China and a resurgent Russia which have IADS that make 4th gen fighters little more than targets. Having the F-35 as a boutique platform runs the risk that we'll lose the attrition war against those highly capable adversaries.

Putin likes to compete at what we in the US term "below armed conflict" but, in reality, it's only below armed conflict from the US/NATO perspective. For the people of Georgia and Ukraine, it definitely is armed conflict. For all his savvy, Putin isn't a genius and there's a real risk that continued military incursions will, one day, trigged a bigger conflict. If that day arises, I hope we have enough F-35s in the inventory to cope.

Glider · Feb 26, 2021

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
One thing though. The F-35 was never meant to replace the F-15. That was what the F-22 was for, although it never did. It simply complimented (but the 22 is still the most potent air superiority fighter in existence). The F-35 was meant to replace the F-16 and the A-10.

Oh, one more thing...

Go Raptor!

I agree with a lot of what you say, but for politicians and senior officers to pretend that the F35 was ever going to replace the A10 was always a pipedream. The F35 can be said to have replaced the F16 in the wealthier countries in the world, but as a replacement for the A10 it was never going to work.
It could also be said that it was inevitable that the F35 would replace the F15 in countries other than the USA simply because the USA wouldn't release the F22 to those countries that had purchased the F15, plus of course the cost of the F22.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Feb 26, 2021

Glider said:
I agree with a lot of what you say, but for politicians and senior officers to pretend that the F35 was ever going to replace the A10 was always a pipedream. The F35 can be said to have replaced the F16 in the wealthier countries in the world, but as a replacement for the A10 it was never going to work.
It could also be said that it was inevitable that the F35 would replace the F15 in countries other than the USA simply because the USA wouldn't release the F22 to those countries that had purchased the F15, plus of course the cost of the F22.

The F-35 was never going to replace the A-10 no matter how much they wanted it too. The A-10 is just so specialized, and the F-35 is too fragile. The F-35 and the F-15 have different roles. Maybe outside of the US. Maybe...

michaelmaltby · Feb 26, 2021

... look to the Israeli's use of a 'high end' platform - F-35 - in real combat strikes .... there's familiarity factor with any platform ... pilots are only as good as their training and experience ... the Israelis don't shrink from this.
Go Lightning

FLYBOYJ · Feb 26, 2021

davparlr said:
This may be an anathema to many but I think the manned air superiority fighter is ending it reign. With the advent of smarter and smarter weapons along with increased range and increased maneuverability, add sophisticated artificial intelligence, and manned aircraft wouldn't stand a chance.

I think in the short term we're going to see manned fighters working in conjunction UAVs. It going to be a matter of determining the need for a body in the middle of an automated fight.

GTX · Feb 26, 2021

As of today over 615 F-35s delivered; over 360,000 flight hours logged; it's operating from 27 locations; has been purchased by 13 nations; has achieved IOC with 10 services, 6 of which have flown operational missions; is being actively considered to be purchased by at least another 5 nations and is expected to result in probably over 4000 act ultimately delivered through to the 2040s. If that's a failure, I would love to see what success looks like...

Glider · Feb 27, 2021

GTX said:
If that's a failure, I would love to see what success looks like...

I give you the Russian Su57. Supposed to be the replacement for the Mig 29 and other fighters which would have been a huge purchase. India bought into it and were going to buy about 200ish aircraft and ended up walking away from the whole thing because it failed nearly all it criteria and Russia reduced it's number to about 100 aircraft.
Personally I liked the reason given by Russia for the delays, it was because our 4th generation aircraft are so good we don't need to press the development of a 5th generation aircraft.

GTX · Feb 27, 2021

Glider said:
I give you the Russian Su57. Supposed to be the replacement for the Mig 29 and other fighters which would have been a huge purchase. India bought into it and were going to buy about 200ish aircraft and ended up walking away from the whole thing because it failed nearly all it criteria and Russia reduced it's number to about 100 aircraft.
Personally I liked the reason given by Russia for the delays, it was because our 4th generation aircraft are so good we don't need to press the development of a 5th generation aircraft.

Admiral Beez · Mar 13, 2021

GTX said:
As of today over 615 F-35s delivered; over 360,000 flight hours logged; it's operating from 27 locations; has been purchased by 13 nations; has achieved IOC with 10 services, 6 of which have flown operational missions; is being actively considered to be purchased by at least another 5 nations and is expected to result in probably over 4000 act ultimately delivered through to the 2040s. If that's a failure, I would love to see what success looks like...

Perhaps it's too big to fail, the ultimate sunk cost fallacy.

Opinion | The Fighter Jet That's Too Pricey to Fail

It will be interesting to see what Canada does. We've been prevaricating on this for decades now.

FLYBOYJ · Mar 13, 2021

Admiral Beez said:
Perhaps it's too big to fail, the ultimate sunk cost fallacy.

Opinion | The Fighter Jet That's Too Pricey to Fail

It will be interesting to see what Canada does. We've been prevaricating on this for decades now.

Great article - while LMCO isn't blameless, no one want to address people in the pentagon and USAF who kept adding things on to the program.

GTX · Mar 13, 2021

Admiral Beez said:
Perhaps it's too big to fail, the ultimate sunk cost fallacy.

Opinion | The Fighter Jet That's Too Pricey to Fail

It will be interesting to see what Canada does. We've been prevaricating on this for decades now.

Canada will eventually get the F-35.

Admiral Beez · Mar 13, 2021

GTX said:
Canada will eventually get the F-35.

Eventually yes, but that could be a long time. Ottawa has spent the farm on Covid, we need to replace the frigates. There's no money for the F-35. If we could without facing the ire of Washington and contravening Norad I expect Canada would like to go the way of New Zealand in scrapping the fighter requirement entirely.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 1, 2021

Lockheed’s F-35 topples competition in Swiss fighter contest

The F-35 beat out the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale and Boeing's Super Hornet.

www.defensenews.com

nuuumannn · Jul 1, 2021

Was just gonna post that, and the Rafale was the expected favourite for a while.

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 1, 2021

FLYBOYJ said:
Lockheed’s F-35 topples competition in Swiss fighter contest

The F-35 beat out the Eurofighter Typhoon, Dassault Rafale and Boeing's Super Hornet.

www.defensenews.com

I would expect it to beat those. The F-35 is a whole generation better. Now lets put an F-22 up against it...

FLYBOYJ · Jul 1, 2021

DerAdlerIstGelandet said:
I would expect it to beat those. The F-35 is a whole generation better. Now lets put an F-22 up against it...

Will the F-35 be able to fight BVR and interface with ground based assets?

some F35 info

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