some F35 info

buffnut453 · Jul 6, 2021

wlewisiii said:
Well, I'd say hedging their bets. They built nowhere near enough F-22's and have already built too many F-35's so the F-15ex will be there to be a known quantity for the medium term till they see if the F-35 actually performs in combat as well as they think it will from exercises. Reality has a way of being far different from a Tom Clancy-esque fantasy where everything works perfect the first try.

Agree with the statement regarding F-22s. However, how do you determine that there are too many F-35s? What should we have instead? More F-16s?

As to your comment about Clancy-esque fantasy, I recommend you check up on how exercises are run at Nellis and other locations. They are about as realistic as they possibly can be...and I can guarantee you that Nellis exercises are specifically run to ensure that things do not work perfectly.

Since the Israeli, British and USMC F-35s have all conducted combat operations, at what point do you think we will be able to say that it performs as well as expected? Or are you proposing that we must wait for a large force-on-force war against a near-peer adversary to make that judgement? If so, I really, REALLY hope we never have to make that assessment!
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SaparotRob · Jul 6, 2021

I am seeing a lot about the F-35 requiring a lot more maintenance than anticipated. Is this this due to teething issues and working out the bugs or is it something else?

GrauGeist · Jul 6, 2021

SaparotRob said:
I am seeing a lot about the F-35 requiring a lot more maintenance than anticipated. Is this this due to teething issues and working out the bugs or is it something else?

Depends on who's saying it.

If it's from a military source, then it's credible.

If it's from a media source, who's quoting another media source, who's using "Joe-blog's" op-ed as it's source...then no.

SaparotRob · Jul 6, 2021

That's what I thought. If it's so bad why are countries buying it. If the IAF likes it what can be bad?

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

wlewisiii said:
Well, I'd say hedging their bets. They built nowhere near enough F-22's and have already built too many F-35's so the F-15ex will be there to be a known quantity for the medium term till they see if the F-35 actually performs in combat as well as they think it will from exercises. Reality has a way of being far different from a Tom Clancy-esque fantasy where everything works perfect the first try.

Not even close. The F-35A is supposed to replace the F-16, close to 2000 airframes. The F-35A already served in combat (Israel) and the Marines have 5 active F-35B squadrons. Also remember the aircraft is being manufactured in Italy and Japan. The F-35 is a STRIKE aircraft with 3 different versions available and should not be compared in any way with the F-22

GrauGeist · Jul 6, 2021

SaparotRob said:
That's what I thought. If it's so bad why are countries buying it. If the IAF likes it what can be bad?

Not sure if you've perused further upthread, but the F-35 flogging by the media is virtually the same as any other advanced type developed in the past.

I even posted a quote from an op-ed from the 70's regarding the F-16, that was virtually identical to what's being said about the F-35.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

Marine Corps' First Carrier-Capable F-35 Squadron Is Ready for Wartime Use

The Marine Corps has not disclosed how many F-35Cs the squadron has now.

www.military.com

SaparotRob · Jul 6, 2021

GrauGeist said:
Not sure if you've perused further upthread, but the F-35 flogging by the media is virtually the same as any other advanced type developed in the past.

I even posted a quote from an op-ed from the 70's regarding the F-16, that was virtually identical to what's being said about the F-35.

I have. Modern aircraft are very complex. It's not like rushing JN-4's into service.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

SaparotRob said:
I have. Modern aircraft are very complex. It's not like rushing JN-4's into service.

Exactly! And as been said many times, many of the delays are due to required customer testing aside from the "add ons" that add more cost, but the media always ignores this. Meanwhile close to 650 F-35s (all versions) have been built.

GrauGeist · Jul 6, 2021

Here's a great artical about the F-16 that covers it's development in detail and all that was involved in the process.
You can *almost* replace the word "F-16" for "F-35", as it used advanced (for it's day) technology that needed to be debugged.
In the end, the F-16 proved to be a solid investment, just as the F-35 will (and already is).

The Outrageous Adolescence of the F-16

DerAdlerIstGelandet · Jul 6, 2021

FLYBOYJ said:
Not even close. The F-35A is supposed to replace the F-16, close to 2000 airframes. The F-35A already served in combat (Israel) and the Marines have 5 active F-35B squadrons. Also remember the aircraft is being manufactured in Italy and Japan. The F-35 is a STRIKE aircraft with 3 different versions available and should not be compared in any way with the F-22

2 different roles. The 22 is more comparable to the 15, and the 35 is comparable to the 16 like you pointed out.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

GrauGeist said:
Here's a great artical about the F-16 that covers it's development in detail and all that was involved in the process.
You can *almost* replace the word "F-16" for "F-35", as it used advanced (for it's day) technology that needed to be debugged.
In the end, the F-16 proved to be a solid investment, just as the F-35 will (and already is).

The Outrageous Adolescence of the F-16

I remember around 1976 when the F-15/ F-16 was coming on line and all the bitching and moaning about the price and how the media jumped on any bad press about either aircraft. Into the 80s the B-1B and eventually the B-2 became the whipping boys. F-22 got it's lumps and now the F-35. Waiting for the B-21 to hit the presses!

GrauGeist · Jul 6, 2021

And don't forget how the press jumped all over the "Wobbly Goblin" like a pack of dogs on a three legged-cat.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

GrauGeist said:
And don't forget how the press jumped all over the "Wobbly Goblin" like a pack of dogs on a three legged-cat.

Once they found out it existed. Oh how I remember the the "media experts" and their take on the "F-19"

SaparotRob · Jul 6, 2021

RE: press reporting on aviation. A bunch of years ago I read a puff piece on T-6's (might have been about Sky-Typers) and the reporter wrote "S & J trainers..." Nicely researched. It still bugs me 10, 15 years later.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

That's why we have this;

SaparotRob · Jul 6, 2021

True story. On the railroad a newbie dispatcher reached out to a train that was losing time as it has to be recorded and accounted for. The engineer, aka "Special Ed" (honest!) told the dispatcher that he had a problem with the 4Q2 valve but he reset the flux capacitor and it seems to be holding.
You could hear her frantically flipping through the trouble shooting manual over the radio.

FLYBOYJ · Jul 6, 2021

SaparotRob said:
True story. On the railroad a newbie dispatcher reached out to a train that was losing time as it has to be recorded and accounted for. The engineer, aka "Special Ed" (honest!) told the dispatcher that he had a problem with the 4Q2 valve but he reset the flux capacitor and it seems to be holding.
You could hear her frantically flipping through the trouble shooting manual over the radio.

I used the "4Q" phrase on a guy who used to like to read what was on people's desks. I think I called it a "4Q-1 drone and he bought it

GTX · Jul 6, 2021

FLYBOYJ said:
Exactly! And as been said many times, many of the delays are due to required customer testing aside from the "add ons" that add more cost, but the media always ignores this. Meanwhile close to 650 F-35s (all versions) have been built.

More - 665+" https://www.f35.com/content/dam/loc.../images/FG21-00000_001 F35FastFacts7_2021.pdf

special ed · Jul 6, 2021

I've never worked on a rail road. Must be a cousin.

some F35 info

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