Which current European option is better than the F-15EX?
Believe me when I say the new EX is nothing like the 50 year old legacy Eagle.
Believe me when I say the new EX is nothing like the 50 year old legacy Eagle.
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Glider
Major
Frankly, any of them. Electronically they will be a close match with advantages and disadvantages. However at the end of the day the basic design of each of them is more up to date than the F15EX and I would expect that they would have the advantage.
Neither would have the stealth capability of the F35 and F22 so that is evened out, and we will not know until they meet in a red flag scenario and see how they get on. According to the RAF reports,, if you take out the stealth then the F35 is at a disadvantage against the Typhoon which I think is to be expected. Earlier F15's at Red Flag have had a hard time against the Typhoon, Rafael and Grippen. The EX will no doubt be an improvement, but would it be enough, I doubt it as the basic design is the same.
I don't pretend to know how the F22 without BVR fighting would get on against the three european fighters, that would be a good test.
Neither would have the stealth capability of the F35 and F22 so that is evened out, and we will not know until they meet in a red flag scenario and see how they get on. According to the RAF reports,, if you take out the stealth then the F35 is at a disadvantage against the Typhoon which I think is to be expected. Earlier F15's at Red Flag have had a hard time against the Typhoon, Rafael and Grippen. The EX will no doubt be an improvement, but would it be enough, I doubt it as the basic design is the same.
I don't pretend to know how the F22 without BVR fighting would get on against the three european fighters, that would be a good test.
The new current F-15EX is much improved. Its not a 4th Gen fighter. Its a 4.5 only because it does not have the stealth. Its quite honestly a totally different aircraft from the legacy Eagle. More maneuverable, and much more capable. Upgraded avionics, improved weapons payloads, increased range, fly by wire, you name it.
I'd gladly put it up against a Typhoon, Rafael and Grippen.
SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
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SaparotRob
Unter Gemeine Geschwader Murmeltier XIII
And it's Boeing!
Glider
Major
Trying to work out if that's good, or bad.
Holtzauge
Airman 1st Class
Yes, it would probably do well against the JAS39 Gripen, but against the new stealth JAS41 Grippen? No, way!
You mean the JAS-41, that has not been developed or built?
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
Holtzauge
Airman 1st Class
Me kidding? Trump called our PM and ordered us to build it or we could kiss NATO goodbye he said. What else could we do?
Holtzauge
Airman 1st Class
OK, now I see what you mean: There REALLY IS some speculation about a JAS41. Never knew that. I just thought it could be a pun on the Grippen spelling that's all.
But a completely new indigenous Swedish fighter design now that we're in NATO? Never going to happen, even if SAAB would like that very much of course....
But a completely new indigenous Swedish fighter design now that we're in NATO? Never going to happen, even if SAAB would like that very much of course....
OK, now I see what you mean: There REALLY IS some speculation about a JAS41. Never knew that. I just thought it could be a pun on the Grippen spelling that's all.
But a completely new indigenous Swedish fighter design now that we're in NATO? Never going to happen, even if SAAB would like that very much of course....
There is no speculation. There is no "Stealth Grippen" and there is no "JAS-41"
Not sure how that is a pun either.
And please lets keep unnecessary Politics off the forum.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
NATO members are able to construct their own native types and the JAS 39C/D is fully NATO integrated.OK, now I see what you mean: There REALLY IS some speculation about a JAS41. Never knew that. I just thought it could be a pun on the Grippen spelling that's all.
But a completely new indigenous Swedish fighter design now that we're in NATO? Never going to happen, even if SAAB would like that very much of course....
Holtzauge
Airman 1st Class
Having worked on the Gripen myself, I'm well aware of its capabilities. That being said, the very reason SAAB and the fighters that followed were created in the first place was solely because of Sweden's strict neutrality policy which targeted independence in arms procurement.
However, since we are now part of NATO, there is no way that Swedes today would be willing to pay for the development of a brand-new all-Swedish fighter. And whatever is decided on in the future, will undoubtedly be done in close co-operation with our new NATO allies.
GreenKnight121
Staff Sergeant
- 913
- Mar 16, 2014
Except for the inconvenient fact that both projects are for a TYPHOON replacement*, not an F-35 replacement!
*Except for the Japanese part of GCAP - which is to replace the Mitsubishi F-2 in the JASDF, and the French portion of FCAS - which is to replace the remaining Mirage 2000s and supplement or replace Rafale in the AdlAdlE.
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Glider
Major
This is going to sound daft but I don't get your point. The Tempest is to replace the Typhoon with a 6th generation fighter with capabilities and technologies which are way in advance of the Typhoon and the F35. My understanding which certainly could be wrong, is that the Tempest will supplement the F35 not replace the F35, in a similar manner to the F35 (in the RAF) supplemented the Typhoon, it didn't replace it.
Little has been said about the USA approach to the next development but the USN has the FA-XX project which is designed to replace the FA18 and complement the F35 which is pretty much the same approach. It is described as being a 6th Generation fighter.
The USAF has the NGAD project also described as being a 6th Generation project and this seems to have similar goals to those outlined in both the Tempest and FA-XX project.
What will eventually happen, none of us know apart from two things: -
a) Things will change.
b) All of them will involve eye watering sums of money.
A good bet would be that the two European projects merge and the two USA projects will also merge.
However the original point still stands. The USA no longer has a stranglehold on the ability to design and develop highly advanced military aircraft. If its not careful, it will have to fund the development and build on its own. The rest of the world have options, good options.
GrauGeist
Generalfeldmarschall zur Luftschiff Abteilung
The advantage of the F-35, though, is commonality across the board for the Allies.
Meaning that in the event of a war, F-35 operators will have ready access to parts and support regardless of where they've been deployed.
For example: if the F-35 had been involved in Desert Storm, U.S. and British F-35s could have had instant access to support at Saudi airfields instead of relying on logistics trains to catch up.
Meaning that in the event of a war, F-35 operators will have ready access to parts and support regardless of where they've been deployed.
For example: if the F-35 had been involved in Desert Storm, U.S. and British F-35s could have had instant access to support at Saudi airfields instead of relying on logistics trains to catch up.
GreenKnight121
Staff Sergeant
- 913
- Mar 16, 2014
You clearly stated that there are two European projects to replace the F-35.
See the part I bolded?
Or are you trying to say there are two OTHER European fighter projects ongoing and that it is those that will replace the F-35?
