SturmFw's

[Twitch]

Reminded me of some info I have on Willi Maximowitz and his A8-/R8. This picture shows his Black 8 attacking B-24Js of the 93ed BG in summer 1944. He was in IV Sturm/JG3 which took in his original Sturmstaffel 1 formed in November 1943. Rüstsätze modifications replaced the outboard MG 151 20 mms with Mk 108 30 mms.

As a Strumback or rammer Willi scored several kills over heavies by ramming. His final tally was 27 with 15 4-engined bombers. He went MIA April 20, 1945

 

[Erich]

a little added info Twitch. Maxi flew black 8 on jabo missions in Normandie for a week before his 11.Sturm/JG 3 was then re-evaluated and used for the basis of the Sturmangriff for the IV. gruppe. We are not usre if he used this Schwarze 8 continually or other a/c as Will Unger sure did at least 12 different Sturms.

maxi went missing with Soviet fighters at mid-altitude and told my freind and his kaermaden in 14.Sturm/JG 3 that he packed away an Mp 40 in the cockpit and if crash-landing in soviet territory that he was going to save the last bullet for himself. Still studying by maxi may hve only had one ramming. and also the painting depicts an A-8/R2 as the R8's did not come available till end of November 44 with standard removeal of the cowling mg 131's and the aerodynamic fairings installed as standard. R2's had the installation but it wa done in the field and not at the factory ...........

Tschuß

 

[Wurger]

Hi !!!
There a pic of the Willi Maximowitz's Fw 190A8-/R8 " Black 8 ".

source unknown:

 

[Erich]

geez guys its a frickin A-8/R2 ok ............. the pic is a series of well known often published shots of him doing a taxi run without the under fuselgage bomb while their short stint - 1 week on Normandie. there is so much myth that goes on when 1-2 photos appear especially on the net

 

[lesofprimus]

see eagle-editions.com

Jerry Crandall, new releases page and they cover the Dora book(s) of sorts. no commitment as to when the volumes will be released by stone and stone which is quite reputable mentions the September release month

I just purchased the Green Hearts Dora 9 book Erich.... Any comments on that one??? I remember u saying it was a pretty damn good book with only a few innacuracys....

 

[Erich]

it is a classic on the III./JG 54 first with the Dora and into JG 26. Great profiles probably the best ever printed in my mind, kills, losses, history. A fantastic work wish Axel would get it together and put his earlier Janaury to August 44 book on III./JG 54 in print but he is working on othere things.

you will enjoy this Les ........ read slowly and soak it in like the JG 300 book, I am still on page 114 or something of sorts.....too much side research taking me away from things that need reading/finishing . . .

 

[lesofprimus]

I have read the JG300 Vol I twice already hehe.... An unreal amount of info there... Im looking foward to the Dora 9 book, as well as the 2 volume Dora book.... From what I understand, both volumes will be sold together.... Am I misinterpeting the write up???

 

[Erich]

Les it appears so which is silly in my mind but yet will save them monies. both promiosed at the same time and they will have the books then for shipment instead of waiting forever. there is so much on the dora the last two years and now am not sure how much more of the "new" is even out there and not known by us all. I'll pick up volume 1 just to add to what I already have on the
doras of JG 301 and JG 300 the latter will be indepth to a point in 2nd volume of JG 300, the dora being used in a capacity it was not meant for ........

E

 

[Twitch]

Wurger, Erich- here's a profile I have of Black 8

 

[Erich]

the profile again depicts the Schwarze 8 before it's total Paner fittings in Luly of 44. time of the profile depiction is Normandie first week of June 44. Note the panzerplatten should be on the fuselage side-steel bolted plates. later front armored glas screen and then the Scheuklappen or blinkers as they liked to be called on all Iv.Sturm/JG 3 Fw's for nearly the whole war some even had them still on the Ost front battles of 45.
red stripe over the adlerflugel exhaust and the spinner colours should be a baclk prop with yellow stipe not red and yellow which none of the SturmFw had. During July and early August 44 the the 11th and 13th staffels had a black prop with white spiralschnauze and the 12th had yellow on the black background plus a yellow edge on the exhaust. 2./Jg 51 was the foruth staffel and they had a red stripe on a black prop base with a red stripe around the exhaust eagle. After August 10, 44 2./JG 51 became the new 16th staffel and all Sturms had the black prop spinner with white stripe, thw hite fusleage band was removed as well as the ~ over it and the black-blue engine cowling paint job was also removed. Indeed the colours of the Iv gruppe were dissolved at July 44's end with the additions of new Sturms coming into the unit, the colours of the gruppe reamined quite bland .......

 

[lesofprimus]

Awesome info Erich....

 

[Wurger]

Thanks a lot Erich.Excelent info for me.

 

[Wurger]

Thank you for the profil Twitch.I've found others.

Erich could you comment on them?

source unknown:

 

[Erich]

well the two sturms need to be combined to get 1 a/c correctly. they both have the wrong camo as they are not that dark nor that green. no red/yellow spinner so the top one is crrect in that regard. the fuselage band is a wide white one like the upper but the welle ~ is like the upper one not the bottom.

the drop tank in the lower profile is correct the upper one is late war November-Janaury 45 and onward. Panzerplatten on the side of the fuselage like the upper is correct. blue-black cowling like the upper but the gun configuration is like the bottom, the upper inboard 2cm are too long. the wappenshield of JG 3 is like the lower one as well, small but not that small as shown in the profile. the winged U is like the upper profile shown going toward the left. The a/c is painted in the 1944 greys no green/brown colours

 

[Gnomey]

Good stuff Erich!

 

[Erich]

heres the camo colouration of maxi's black 8 or what it should be like with it' sister machines - the first top two

courtesy EE's sorry for being a little fuzzy ........

 

[Wurger]

Thank you once again Erich.Useful info there.

 

[Erich]

you guys might want to read this and ask me questions as the real story is a bit different than the chaos written here from the 483rd which lost altogether 15 B-17's to IV.Sturm/JG 3. the Sturmangriff attack was so effective on the rear of the B-17's of this US 15th AF that even the Sturmgruppe of JG 3 were given ridiculous kill claims of 34 to their credit. The 15th AF lost a total of 17 B-17's this date and at least 8 P-51's to JG 300

the SturmJG 3 airfield of Memmingen was pounded literally into the ground ...... with hardly a building left, the control HQ unit one of the few remaining. Walter Dahl with his staff of JG 300 were also here and drove out to the edge of the field and ran into the trees watching the bombardment, plus ducking their heads. he had an agina attack which kept him from leading his JG 300 fighters

http://www.483rd.com/mmission.html

by the way no rockets were used as the 3cm must have been very powerful - HE/I in the eyes of the brave bomber crews .....

E

 

[lesofprimus]

"gunners of the 483rd Bombardment Group's formation, accounted for fifty-three (53) enemy aircraft destroyed, eight (8) probably destroyed and five (5) damaged."

I find the extremely hard to believe that many went down to the bombers gunners, especially since so many of them went down in the matter of seconds....

"As they turned off the target, twelve (12) P-38's from the lst Fighter Group appeared and attacked the German fighters."

How many German aircraft were lost to the -38's vs the -17's???

"bomb strike photos showed 118 enemy aircraft present (40 single engine, 77 twin engine and one multi-engine). Claims were 17 destroyed, 4 probably destroyed and 14 damaged."

17 out of 118 aircraft destroyed on the ground sounds like an unsuccessful mission to me...

"143 officers and men paid with their lives and fourteen (14) out of twenty-six (26) airplanes failed to return"

Doesnt sound like the sacrifice was worth the results....

 

[Erich]

you got that right Les. Try a total los count of the gruppe that attacked them and you come up with 12 Sturm FW's of JG 3 lost, 7 KIA and 5 wounded. Obergefreiter Schulz had shot down a B-17 as well as a P-51 and he was KIA from the bg gunners.............all German Sturm losses were to the B-17's but a far cry from what they were given credit for. the opposite like I said was the claims by the Sturms, originally given as 49 kills but reduced to 34 which is still to high. this would of been a fantastic propaganda victory and it was on film for the gruppe, only inked out by the total destruction of it's airfield. the P-38's and the P-51 claimed nothing from the IV./JG 3 gruppe, JG 300 on the other hand a different matter as the Jg was mixing it up with at least P-51's.

the amount of destruction also given by the 483rd is totally wrong, they wrecked the airfield from one end to another. JG 3 lost 13 ground crew in the bombing, nearlye very building destroyed or severly damaged. Dahl and his personal staff barely got away in their vehicles and it appeasr only the control tower was spared. There were 170 GErman personell killed and 140 wounded. What I have written in German : several notalbe pilots of JG 3 wounded, 26 machines destroyed and 30 heavily damged of this totals, 13 were SturmFw's, 2 Storchs and the JG 3 Sturm Ar 96 with heavy damage. Many destroyer twin engine Me 410's bit the bullet while on the field .....