The aircraft that outlived their use-by date

[davebender]

Me-410 carried so much fuel (2,420 liters) that it has the range to strike strategic targets. Too bad for Germany they never had enough Me-410s to allow the aircraft to be employed that way.

 

[syscom3]

The P40 was wasted production after 1943. The P39 should have been done in by that date, but the Russians loved it. The B17 production should have been ramped down after summer 1944 with a complete close out by the end of autumn.

 

[davebender]

I'd approach that differently.

R1820 and R1830 engine production should have been largely replaced by R2600 engine by 1943. When powered by R2600 engines aircraft such as B-17, B-24 and PBY would remain competitive through the end of WWII.

 

[Shortround6]

I'd approach that differently.

R1820 and R1830 engine production should have been largely replaced by R2600 engine by 1943. When powered by R2600 engines aircraft such as B-17, B-24 and PBY would remain competitive through the end of WWII.

Not with out an almost total redesign, at which point why not just design NEW bombers using NEW engines?

We have been over this before. The B-17, B-24 and to a lesser extent the PBY were operating 10s of thousands of pounds over their original design weight. Adding 2-3 tons of powerplant weight to the 4 engine planes is going to call for a beefed -up heavier structure or some really interesting trade-offs.
Throw in the fact that NO production aircraft EVER used a turbo R-2600 and performance at altitude might not be all that different.

 

[Shortround6]

Candidates from across the Pacific include the Ki-43, The Zero, The Ki-21 bomber, Ki-45, Ki-48, Ki-49...........

I think I am detecting a pattern here

 

[buffnut453]

I'd be tempted to include the Hurricane on this list. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Hurribus but there's no way it should have stayed in production as long as it did. It was the right aircraft to get us through the Battle of Britain but by late 1941 was pretty much outclassed. It did sterling work as a ground attack aircraft in the Far East but other aircraft could/should have been made available from 1942 onwards. Just my ever-so-humble opinion...

 

[Shortround6]

I think you are right, one might argue about the final date but 1944 was way too long.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'd be tempted to include the Hurricane on this list. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the Hurribus but there's no way it should have stayed in production as long as it did. It was the right aircraft to get us through the Battle of Britain but by late 1941 was pretty much outclassed. It did sterling work as a ground attack aircraft in the Far East but other aircraft could/should have been made available from 1942 onwards. Just my ever-so-humble opinion...

The British recognised this fact in late 1940. The problem was that the RAF was expanding and that the Commonwealth needed squadrons equipped as well, so the Spitfire alone couldn't meet the demand for all theatres.

The Spitfire got retained for the job of home defence, while the Hurricane got disbursed all over the globe to the 'secondary' theatres. Even then, it was relegate to ground attack in most theatres during 1942.

 

[Dogwalker]

Hs 123 was out of production since 1940. However, it had such an excellent record on the eastern front that von Richtiven asked, in late 1943, if would be possible to restart its production

And, since this was anti-economical, the Luftwaffe, in 1943, became the last customer of the Cr.42, with which a German pilot, in February 1945, obtained the last aerial victory of a biplane in history.
The Cr.42 was a good candidate for the thread. In many ways obsolete at the time of it's introduction, but so cheap and versatile to survive until the end of the war.

 

[beitou]

The JU52/3, a valuable workhorse that was outdated by 1941 and should have been replaced before Stalingrad.

 

[Denniss]

The performances of the Bf 110 were from the beginning only average (as Zerstoerer obsolete after BoB, as long range fighter obsolete as the introduction) and it was not a successful nightfighter, it was an average nightfighter, many german nightfighter pilots prefered at the beginning the Do 215/Do17 and later the Ju 88.

You're a bit wrong here, the Bf 110 was actually very succesful as long range fighter until they were forced to be dead ducks flying close bomber escort. They had shortcoming with acceleration and climb performance and this caused losses if used as fighter-bomber and caught in low alt without escorts. Despite it's limited range and cockpit space they were successful night fighters, shooting-down lots of enemy aircraft. They just couldn't produce enough Ju 88G to completely replace the 110 so it had to be kept in production until very early 45.

 

[Denniss]

Both the Hs 123 and CR.42 (and even Go 145) were used in a similar role as the Po-2/U2 - as night harrassment bombers. Even the Ju 87 was pressed into this role on all fronts, all aircraft had one in common - they were really slow so most night fighters would have problems to track/follow them as they were usually much faster.

 

[Aozora]

Candidates from across the Pacific include the Ki-43, The Zero, The Ki-21 bomber, Ki-45, Ki-48, Ki-49...........

I think I am detecting a pattern here

Add G4M (plus the MXY7 Okha), D3A, B5N, F1M2. Then there's this, Mitsubishi Ki-51:

Similar in size and performance to the Dauntless, with a whopping 441 lb (200 kg) bomb load! Yet, according to Francillon, Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War, it was so popular that a NEW production line was set up by Tachikawa in late 1944...

 

[Juha]

Add G4M (plus the MXY7 Okha), D3A, B5N, F1M2. Then there's this, Mitsubishi Ki-51:

Similar in size and performance to the Dauntless, with a whopping 441 lb (200 kg) bomb load! Yet, according to Francillon, Japanese Aircraft of the Pacific War, it was so popular that a NEW production line was set up by Tachikawa in late 1944...

Now Ki-51 was an assault-plane, Japanese Il-2, it had crew armour etc, not good against USN but suited ops over China.

 

[davebender]

Ju-52s remained in service several decades after WWII ended. Which suggests the aircraft was still very useful as an inexpensive short range transport.

IMO Germany missed the boat by not introducing Ju-252 for medium range missions which did not require STOL capability. But there's no reason to withdraw Ju-52 from service during 1941.

 

[Procrastintor]

That is just a bit hard to swallow. The US was telling it's student pilots in 1943 in a manual for the P-40 that the P-40 would no longer be issued to new squadrons and that they would fly different fighters than the P-40 when they joined combat squadrons. It may have continued to provide ground support in 1944/45 but was no longer considered a front rank aircraft and it's continued production into late 1944 can onlynbe considered an embarrassment.

Um, a 6 year production run in the middle of World War 2, which was a infamous for cutting productions short left and right on all sides, is in no way an embarrassment. And by the way, they WERE in fact fighting in 1945, some groups preferred it to the P-51s and such.

 

[Shortround6]

Still fighting is one thing, still being issued is another. Defending themselves after dropping bombs is one thing, flying escort missions for another bombers is another of flying air superiority missions.

Fighting and acting as a fighter are not the same thing.

 

[Procrastintor]

I'm sorry, but just because they didn't leave the base specifically FOR dogfighting doesn't mean they were unable to do it well. They were just as good as many planes in a dogfight, the only reasons they didn't go on long range escort missions was their engines didn't do well at 20,000 feet.

 

[Shortround6]

Which basically meant that no matter how well they did at low level or at fighter bombing they needed Better fighters to fly top cover for them in order to fly the missions they DID fly against most opposition. The fact that the Japanese were still using the Ki-43 with little or no improvement after 3 years does NOT automatically give the P-40 a pass into the ranks of first class fighters in 1944/45.

 

[bobbysocks]

Um, a 6 year production run in the middle of World War 2, which was a infamous for cutting productions short left and right on all sides, is in no way an embarrassment. And by the way, they WERE in fact fighting in 1945, some groups preferred it to the P-51s and such.

which group is that? i would be interested in reading the accounts and the reasoning. in all my conversations with ww2 vets i have never run across a pilot who would have traded his mustang for a 40. most had trained in a 40 before being shipped overseas and assigned to a mustang group....for them there was no comparison.