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Erich said:CB I have seen the 1st and 3rd reference and I was not impresssed, especially the 3rd with Soviet news agency pics from all through the war and not necessairly at Kursk.
have you tried true German sources as Geroge Nipes work on the Kursk?mius Battles and probably the best German source from Kommanduer Sylvester Stadler ~ W-SS Die Offensive gegen Kursk 1942, Munin Verlag.
I have the bibldbands of 1st, 2nd W-SS and nothing seems to appear that a small diametre hit could pop the deck and turret off a German tank. A larger round such as a 122mm obviously and alos at close range. soviet tanks on the other hand a 37mm tungsten round from a Mk 103 could pop a T-34's lid right off given a lucky hit at the turret base............oh well on it goes.
please site the sources of your photo content please even if they are personal. We need to start doing this, as I have got some personal mails to that effect from other research chaps the last weeks
give your sources please for the pics if you would, not just say they were taken from those books you listed. Please be specific. My intent is to do the same if I use others books, my data base is huge of fotos collected from over the many 40 years but ......... I run across an intersting net image from time to time that I haven;t seen before
the popping off the top of the deck would not be caused from a 76mm or 57mm round, they are internal blow outs
The Su 152 was not a noted German panzer killer but more of heavy concrete pillbox buster.
nothing could touch it at the time if well hidden.
the Soviet claims to actual German losses are nothing compared to what has been written in Soviet propagaanda books and taken as hard fact.
I have a few old Kursk books I picked up in the 70's and they are going right into the bon-fore this spring.
Can anyone provide a good link for the involved
tanks?
With these datas I should be able to extrapolate each unit´s immune zone against each other in theory. This may stop the discussion wether a gun can penetrate the armor of a Ferdinand or not.
I have an nterest in after-action combat report. The Russian one on the Grant says "mediocre tank-destroyer".
the ruskies like it because it did not explode went hit and it cath fire very slowly allowing in the majority of the cases a safe bail out by his crew.
There is no Allied AT gun that could pop the turret off a Tiger or Panther.
Add to inferior optics -or the lack thereof- the fact the soviet guys manning such AFVs were trained real fast to be sent to the front and they are at disadvantage.
The sole problem, as I said, is the fact there were too few Ferdinands
the SU-152s and other heavy soviet self-propelled artillery were produced in far bigger numbers.
Schwarz, I have not found any solid evidence which might indicate, much less prove, Wehrmacht equipment was "unreliable".
That perhaps one or two of the 13 -thirteen only- Ferdinands lost during the entire Kursk battle might have been lost due to mechanical problems, that does not imply the machines were "unreliable", do you agree?
the numbers of the Ferdinand indicate we talk about one of the most fearsome tank killers ever made.
It would be like saying the soviets never lost any T-34s due to mechanical problems, you bet they lost a number due to this cause.
What about bad quality or poor welding work?
sections of the vehicles would crack as a consequence of welding problem.
So at Kursk the Ferdinands did not "break down", and the Tigers "did not break down".
THERE WERE NO PANTHERS IN PROKHOROVA
Rivers of blood at the disposal of soviet commanders to ensure victory.
Yes they did indeed...but the Ju 87G's also made a lasting impression on the Soviets
schwarzpanzer said:CharlesBronson:
I have an nterest in after-action combat report. The Russian one on the Grant says "mediocre tank-destroyer".
The Soviet guns 122mm 152mm definately could do it to a Panther
I think SchwarzPanzer is amazing, 8) yes I do.
No Schwarz, the Soviet 122mm and 152mm guns could not pop the turret off a Panther by sheer kinetic energy, so stop fantasizing about it, OK.