The Bf-109 Thread

[krupp]

i like Fw190 more.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

me too to be honest.........

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

i like Fw190 more.

I like the Bf-109 better. The Fw-190 was a better aircraft but I like the Bf-109 better and besides....

This is The Bf-109 Thread.

 

[krupp]

you right.
can you tell me how much Bf109 be Made in WWII, all of them.

 

[KraziKanuK]

Look in near the bottom of the page for production of new 109s from Jan 1944 http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=2462&page=3

File is 'Bf 109 Neubau.doc'

All told there was ~35,000 109s built in Germany and Hungary. Some say the Hungarian 109s had better quality than the German 109s.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yes about 35,000 to 36,000 Bf-109s were built in all varients with the Bf-109G being produced in the most numbers.

 

[krupp]

XieXie

 

[rebel8303]

I like more the Bf 109 because of it's design. But I would prefer the Fw 190

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The 109 is just my favorite aircraft of WW2, I know it was not the best fighter of WW2.

 

[CharlesBronson]

An example of late war kill with the Bf-109 G-14.

Fifty eight years after this air battle, 1st Lt Richard Franz describes his recollections of this day "on the other end" of the description in "The Yoxford Boys and the Arnheim Affair: The 357th FG in operations during the air battle on 19 September 1944". 1st Lt Franz was at this time the Captain of 7th Squadron of II. Group, in the 11th Fighter Wing (7./JG11). He was an experienced fighter pilot with 6 shoot downs (1 x P47 and 5 x B17), which he achieved as pilot in STURMSTAFFEL 1 and in 11./JG3 between Dec 43 and May 44. Lt Franz was shot down over Berlin in aerial combat on Apr 25th 1945, while Captain of 1./JG11, and ended WWII as a POW in Russia with a total of 23 certified shoot downs. He himself had been shot down 6 times; he baled out one time and made 5 belly landings. After returning from Russian POW camps on Dec 23rd 1947, he joined the newly created German Air Force on Jan 1st 1956. He was than acting as flight instructor on Harvard AT-6 and Fouga-Magister CM 170 to train young German fighter pilots in Landsberg/Lech, Bavaria, Germany. He retired in 1980 as Lt.Colonel at the age of 58 (born on Oct 10th 1922).



"We (II./JG11) started on Sep 19th 1944 at 1700 hours local time from Breitscheid operations field with 19 aircrafts (Me 109 G-14/AS) for the 2nd sortie of this day, heading northwest in direction Arnheim. These Me 109 G-14/AS were special high altitude fighters with methanol injection and tall wooden rudder, armed with two 13-millimeter MG131 machine guns (on top of the engine) and a 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon (firing through the spinner). Our task for this mission was fighter sweep in the area of Arnheim and/or attacks on allied ground targets. II./JG11 consisted of the 7th Squadron (7./JG11) and 8th Squadron (8./JG11), each divided into 2-3 flights.

We reached the area above Arnheim at approximately 1740 hours, up to then without enemy contact. The whole unit was led by Lt. Wolf, Captain of 8./JG11. The Me 109s of 8./JG11 were at 7000 ft, while I was leading 7./JG11 as high cover at 9,000 ft. The weather situation was 9/10 at 14,000 ft with strongly restricted visibility down to the ground due to haze.

At approximately 1750 hours Lt Wolf sighted a single P-38 at low altitude, apparently performing reconnaissance, and descended on it. All aircrafts of his 8th Squadron followed him in this dive, unfortunately they did not react to my warning over the radio to stay at 7,000 ft. The result was as follows: 7th Squadron (7./JG11) as altitude cover at 9,000 ft, the rest of the group (8th Squadron) at approximately 3,000 ft.

At the same time, a far superior unit of P-51s (surely more than 40-50 aircrafts) started their attack from approximately 13,000 feet, partially coming out of cloud cover. As far as I know now, those were aircrafts of the 357th FG (362nd FS and 363rd FS). Immediately I climbed with my squadron steeply upward to engage the attacking P-51s. Among others, there was myself in "Green 1", my wingman Warrant officer Roesner in "Green 3", Ssgt Schinnerling in "Green 11" and Sgt Loefler in "Green 15", all of us flying Me 109 G-14/AS.



October 1944 : Lt. Richard Franz in front of his new A/C "YELLOW 1" (which he got after loosing "GREEN 1"on Sept 19th 1944) with the A-flight of 7. / JG11. From left to right: Sgt. Harald Schwarz (YELLOW 4 / KIA Jan 1st 1945), First Lt. Richard Franz (YELLOW 1 / POW April 25th 1945 in Russia), Warr.Officer Erhard Roesner (YELLOW 2 / he flew as Lt. Franz's wingman on Sept 19th and was shot down the same dogfight. MIA May 3rd 1945), Lt. Rudolf Holdermann (YELLOW 3 / KIA May 1st 1945)

The aerial combat developed into a wild dog fight between the P-51s and our Me 109s at the closest quarters and at varying altitudes between 12.000 ft and the deck. It was impossible to maneuver into a firing position without been attacked at once. I attempted a dozen or more times to position myself behind a P-51, but had to break off in seconds as other P-51s turned in on me to attack. During this dogfight my wingman Roesner lost contact to me (he had reported to the squadron around August 1944 and this was his 1st or 2nd enemy contact flying with 7../JG11. Roesner is MIA after aerial combat on May 3rd 1945 in the east).

During this engagement, I saw a P-51 below me, which was behind a Me109, and had already damaged it heavily. Both aircraft were in a flat descent, I positioned myself with a half down turn approximately 300 yards behind the P-51, opened fire at 200 yards with machine gun and cannon, and closed in to 100-150 yards. At the same moment, the Me109 disintegrated as the P-51 was firing on it. I placed heavy hits on motor and cabin of the P-51 and observed parts flying off and black smoke. The aircraft continued a flat descent and crashed at approximately 1755hrs in the vicinity of Vreden. All together I stayed for 10-20 seconds behind the P-51, and then broke off to the right.

At the same moment I received severe hits on engine and right wing. My engine started to smoke at once and lost almost all power. I pushed down and looked for emergency landing possibilities. A crash landing followed on flat land, where the aircraft continued at high speed into a forest loosing both wings. I was recovered from the aircraft lightly injured and was taken care of by soldiers of the 10th SS Panzer Division, a tank unit. The emergency landing occurred in the vicinity of Zwolle, approximately 6 km west of Vreden.

After medical treatment I was taken in a staff car to the position HQ in Enschede, where I met my wingman Roesner who was not injured. He had been shot down and was able to parachute to safety. During the same sortie, Ssgt Schinnerling and Sgt Loeffeler (both experienced pilots) were also shot down, and both were injured in their subsequent crash landings.

http://www.cebudanderson.com/franz.htm

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Good post.

 

[CharlesBronson]

A nice art about one of the last Me-109 G-14 used by Erich Hartmann.

 

[Chocks away!]

I love the bf 109, it was a soldier of the skies, a truly classic aircraft, and it was used by some of the greatest pilots ever. It was probably the plane that shot down most enemy aircraft in history! Definately the most produced aircraft ever, and also, pretty mean looking if you ask me.

 

[lesofprimus]

Definately the most produced aircraft ever

Ummmm.........

 

[Udet]

Chocks:

The Bf 109 was alongside the soviet IL-2 the most produced plane ever.

 

[CharlesBronson]

About 33.500 Bf-109 were produced compared with near 36,000 Il-2, also an aircraft manufactured in large numbers was the trainer bliplane Polikarpov U-2/Po-2, some 34,000 made.

Aniway the BF-109 in the most produced fighter aircraft.

 

[Udet]

Bronson:

Right. But sources of course vary regarding the approximate total number of Bf 109s produced.

Some put the lowest figure in the 33,000/33,500 (as you do) while others put the highest figure in the 35,500 made. (Note that the IL-2 continued in production after the war).

The difference between the total production number of Bf 109s and IL-2s can be considered marginal.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The exact number may never be known but Udets numbers there are the general rule for the Bf-109.

 

[CharlesBronson]

There was 35.0000 designated Werk Ns, but some of these were destroyed in factory by bombing, thats why 33,550 seems razonable.

 

[AVI]

Does anybody have any copies of Messerschmitt factory engineering drawings of the Bf 109 rudder and/or photographs showing the construction of the bare metal rudder frame in detail? Any model from Bf 109E thru Bf 109K.