The Bf-109 Thread

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Just a remark with regard to the IL-2 production figure...of that total a few thousands were produced in the years after the end of the war...so if we stick to the date when WW2 ended in Europe, the Bf 109 is the most produced plane in history.
 
Years ago I was at the air museum in Mesa, Arizona which had what I understood at the time to be the only flyable Me-109. It was in the maintenance facility being worked on at that time. Are there others which are still flyable?
 
A question to the 109 Gurus: What type of success did the 109K's have against the Mustangs?
Also, did the 109's have difficulties with the integrity of the landing gear? Was that something that earlier models suffered from and did it get corrected in later models?
 
Ghostdancer said:
Years ago I was at the air museum in Mesa, Arizona which had what I understood at the time to be the only flyable Me-109. It was in the maintenance facility being worked on at that time. Are there others which are still flyable?
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Back in 1996 we had two in the UK. The well known Black 6 crashed with light damage but is unlikely to fly again as the owners (Government) will not take the chance.
The other I believe is now based in Germany but it was good to see the two together.
 

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Konigstiger205 said:
Nice post Adler...the Bf109 is my fav aircraft too...I just hope I get the chance to see one...
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Should not be a problem. I have seen them all over the place. They have several of them in my area where I live and there are 2 of them flying around here in Europe. I will be going to see an Bf 109E in a few weeks in Munich along with a a Me 262 and Me 163.
 
Ghostdancer said:
Years ago I was at the air museum in Mesa, Arizona which had what I understood at the time to be the only flyable Me-109. It was in the maintenance facility being worked on at that time. Are there others which are still flyable?
Click to expand...

There are several flying around now. There are 2 that are in flying condition in mainland Europe now. I believe there are one or 2 in England. There are several in the United States and there are a few in Canada I believe.
 
I believe Der Adler is correct 2 flying in Europe and one in Canada these are the one's with Daimler engines but keeping them airborne is certainly an exspensive game . The engines are good for only a couple of hundred hours between overhauls and it's hard to find spares for them, plugs are $200 ea tires etc are all very hard to get as most of the spares were scrapped at the end of WW2. Much harder to find parts then for allied warbirds
 

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alejandro_ said:
The G6 had a reinforced structure landing gear, extra armour and reinforced armament. This brought the weight up by 300kg, and the engine power remained the same. The aerodynamics were negative affected too. As a consequence the performance of the G6 was far below than the G2.

Regards
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Thats not quite true

Apart from a different radio set, 13mm MG131 machine guns instead of the 7,92mm MG17s which were the reason for the cowling buldges, a non-retractable tailwheel, bigger wheels and thus the necessity for the kidney shaped wing bulges the G2 and G6 were identical.

Weight difference is also far smaller than the 300kg you claim

Historical weights for Bf 109 G series obtained from primary sources (GLC charts and Hanbuchs) only:

Weights for Bf 109 G-2 Fighter with DB 605 A-1.

Empty Weight: 2253 kg
Equipped weight: 2580 kg
Weapons:
Armor: 78 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel weight : 298 kg
Lubricants weight: 33 kg
Munitions weight : 80 kg (30kg + 50kg)
============================
Take off weight: 3100 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-6 Fighter with DB 605 A-1 (no MW50 equipment) and recon cameras installed. 20mm cannon.

Empty Weight: 2268 kg
Equipped weight : 2679 kg
Weapons : 135 kg
Armor : 78 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel : 295 kg
Oil : 33 kg
Bombs: -
Ammunition : 88 kg
MW 50 : -
---------------------------
Take off weight : 3196 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-6/R2 Recon with DB605AM and MW50 injection and recon cameras installed. 20mm cannon.

Empty Weight: 2268 kg
Equipped weight : 2740 kg
Weapons : 135 kg
Armor : 46 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel : 296 kg
Oil : 33 kg
Bombs: -
Ammunition : 88 kg
MW 50 : 63 kg
---------------------------
Take off weight : 3320 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-6/R5 Recon with DB605A (no MW50 equipment) and recon cameras installed. 20mm cannon.

Empty Weight: 2266 kg
Equipped weight : 2701 kg
Weapons : 135 kg
Armor : 78 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel : 296 kg
Oil : 33 kg
Bombs: -
Ammunition : 88 kg
MW 50 : -
---------------------------
Take off weight : 3218 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-6/AS Fighter with DB605ASB (no MW50 equipment). 20mm cannon.

Empty Weight: 2293 kg
Equipped weight : 2704 kg
Weapons : 135 kg
Armor : 78 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel : 295 kg
Oil : 33 kg
Bombs: -
Ammunition : 88 kg
MW 50 : -
---------------------------
Take off weight : 3221 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-14/ASM Fighter with DB605ASM (MW50 equipment). 20mm cannon.

Empty Weight: 2284 kg
Equipped weight : 2679 kg
Weapons : 135 kg
Armor : 46 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel : 295 kg
Oil : 46 kg
Bombs: -
Ammunition : 88 kg
MW 50 : 63 kg
---------------------------
Take off weight : 3272 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-14/U4 Fighter with DB605AM (MW50 equipment). /U4 = 30mm MK 108 cannon.

Empty Weight: 2294 kg
Equipped weight : 2724 kg
Weapons : 170 kg
Armor : 46 kg
Crew : 100 kg
Fuel : 295 kg
Oil : 46 kg
Bombs: -
Ammunition : 89 kg
MW 50 : 63 kg
---------------------------
Take off weight : 3318 kg


Weights for Bf 109G-10 Fighter with DB605DB (MW50 equipment). 20mm cannon

Empty Weight: 2318 kg
Equipped weight: 2704 kg
Weapons : 135
Armor : 46 kg
Crew weight: 100 kg
Fuel weight : 296 kg
Lubricants weight: 46 kg
Ammunitions weight : 88 kg
Bombs: -
MW50 : 63 kg
============================
Take off weight: 3297 kg


Hereby you see the Bf109G6 and G2 differed only by a megre 96kg on takeoff which hardly has an influence on top speed itself but on acceleration and even then the difference is insignificant. The only thing that really makes a difference speed-wise between the two are the small aerodynamical changes such as:

- the non-retractable tailwheel
- the cowling bulges
- the wing bulges

All in all this accounted for something between 10-15km/h of speed loss. Now given that the Bf109G2 is stated to attain a max speed of somewhere in the region of 656 - 666km/h (the latter confirmed by Soviet test performed at 1.3ata) we arrive at a top speed of 640km/h for the G6 in case of a worst case estimation (656km/h for the G2 that is).

The 625km/h topspeed that are so often claimed for the G6 stem from an RAF flight test in which the respective G6 was carrying the Rüstsatz 6 (i.e. the 20mm MG151/20 gondolas) which added up both to the aircrafts weight and its inflight drag. Coming this way its understandable that a majority of LW pilots were less than thrilled about having gondolas mounted to their 109s as they affected overall performance quite considerably (speed, climb, turn, rollrate, etc.)

Now these 640km/h figures are valid for an early 1943 built Bf109G6. Some while later in late 1943 - early 1944 the DB605A was finally cleared for its initially planned 1.42ata boost pressure providing a full 1475PS at takeoff. The extra 150 PS from this increased boost setting increased top speed of the G6 further to roughly 655km/h, so back to the same performance that the G2 had in mid 1942.
 
seesul said:
O.K. let´s go to fly-
Messerschmitt Bf109-G2 Black 6[/url]

Good flight!
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Sadly 109 G2 "Black 6" was seriously damaged during a forced landing at Duxford a few years ago on what was intended to have been its last flight before retirement to a museum.

There had been moves in place to extend the flying career of the restored aircraft but the crash effectively put an end to these.

I believe Black 6 was restored for static display and is in one of the UK museums
 
Udet said:
Just a remark with regard to the IL-2 production figure...of that total a few thousands were produced in the years after the end of the war...so if we stick to the date when WW2 ended in Europe, the Bf 109 is the most produced plane in history.
Click to expand...

No, sorry, but you are wrong. It just means that Bf 109 could be only considered as most produced plane during WW2, but IL-2 remains most produced plane in history. When you say "in history" you have to stick to the total number produced and not to how many were produced during certain periods of time.

By the way Bf 109 is my favorite plane too. 8)

Here are some pictures of Bf 109G-2 preserved in Aeronautical museum in Belgrade (Serbia):
 

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