The Falklands

[The Basket]

Sharkey got 3 kills. Not 5 not an ace.

Just coz a guy say something dont mean it right.

No reason to hide losses. I thought Argentina had Daggers and not Mirage V.

 

[CharlesBronson]

Sharkey got 3 kills. Not 5 not an ace.

Just coz a guy say something dont mean it right.

No reason to hide losses. I thought Argentina had Daggers and not Mirage V.

I stand corrected , I would say 4 because because the t-34C he damaged was withdrawn from service so I give him and "extra" kill. The daggers are Mirage Vs most of the time, few of the 39 daggers bought by argentina were actually made by israel, in many of them the identificatory tag of the Toulouse factory was still on.

No reason to hide losses.

Any reason for a pilot would made up that narration ?, if anybody can provide more info about the Minerva I will be very happy.

 

[Glider]

HMS Minerva was part of the reinforcements that arrived on the 26th May and they were known as the Bristol group. In the official records she is down as being damaged during the conflict which would tie in with the narrative.

Can I ask which part of the narrative do you question?

 

[CharlesBronson]

HMS Minerva was part of the reinforcements that arrived on the 26th May and they were known as the Bristol group. In the official records she is down as being damaged during the conflict which would tie in with the narrative.

You sure it was the 26th ? Because:

LiveLeak.com - Shot Down in the Falklands

Tomba s Pucara was shot down the 21th may, that is confirmed, if the ship arrived the 26th was not the Minerva who directed Lt Ward attacks against that pair of IA-58s. And if it was you data is incorrect.

Can I ask which part of the narrative do you question?

Nothing in particular, I have the utmost respect to pilots like Nigel Ward, but as I seem to unable to find any casualty inside the HMS Minerva...well that let me a bad taste in my mouth and some suspicions (I am pretty sure that any person hit with 30mm gunfire in the head cannot survive, sorry for my frankness)

 

[The Basket]

Not sure what your point is. Dates dont match so info is wrong.

Never use one source of info. And the deaths of British personnel are well documented.

Unless its all one big conspiracy. I hope MI6 are not reading this...loyal British subject that I am.

 

[Glider]

You sure it was the 26th ? Because:

LiveLeak.com - Shot Down in the Falklands

Tomba s Pucara was shot down the 21th may, that is confirmed, if the ship arrived the 26th was not the Minerva who directed Lt Ward attacks against that pair of IA-58s. And if it was you data is incorrect.


Nothing in particular, I have the utmost respect to pilots like Nigel Ward, but as I seem to unable to find any casualty inside the HMS Minerva...well that let me a bad taste in my mouth and some suspicions (I am pretty sure that any person hit with 30mm gunfire in the head cannot survive, sorry for my frankness)

There is no doubt that she is down as a damaged vessel in the records so someting hit her, however they also say that the Bristol group, didn't reach the Falklands until the 26th.

Apart from that I can only speculate, but if she was anywhere near a carrier then she may not have reached the Falklands before the 26th also shemay have been further out as a radar picket before that date, which would have some logic. The RN could and did use vessels in this manner as a hit on any of the transport vessels would have had dire consequences.

As for the man hit in the head, he may have made it. A shell would almost certainly have exploaded before penetrating that far into the ship so its probable that he was hit by debris of some type. The guy on the radio had just been hit, confusion would have understandable and head wounds bleed a lot. Jumping to the wrong conclusion can easily happen when in pain, shock whilst trying to concentrate on the radar and the guy in the air as a first priority.

 

[Matt308]

Christina Aguilera? she could crush walnuts with those thighs...

Thirty years ago Roger Waters had this to say:

Breszhnev took Afghanistan and Begin took Beirut,
Galtieri took the Union Jack,
And Maggie, over lunch one day, took a cruiser with all hands,
apparently, to make him give it back...

Roger Waters and Eric Clapton. Like eating escargot with ketchup.

 

[Readie]

... eating escargot with ketchup.

If one insists on eating snails then ketchup is the only way ...

 

[CharlesBronson]

There is no doubt that she is down as a damaged vessel in the records so someting hit her, however they also say that the Bristol group, didn't reach the Falklands until the 26th.

Apart from that I can only speculate, but if she was anywhere near a carrier then she may not have reached the Falklands before the 26th also shemay have been further out as a radar picket before that date, which would have some logic. The RN could and did use vessels in this manner as a hit on any of the transport vessels would have had dire consequences.

As for the man hit in the head, he may have made it. A shell would almost certainly have exploaded before penetrating that far into the ship so its probable that he was hit by debris of some type. The guy on the radio had just been hit, confusion would have understandable and head wounds bleed a lot. Jumping to the wrong conclusion can easily happen when in pain, shock whilst trying to concentrate on the radar and the guy in the air as a first priority.

I dont think anybody with 30mm hits in the skull, even fragments, could survive but that is not the point aniway. The point is wich was the ship with killed people by 30mm cannon inside, I would like to know to verify some data, that could denied or confirm some conpiracy theories so usual in many other forums. I am beggining to think mr Nigel Ward mistook the Minerva with other ship, Probably the HMS Brilliant, Argonaut or Antrim, frigates that were heavily attacked by gunfire.

 

[Glider]

He certainly could have done, Minerva was hit but as I said by what I do not know.

 

[Matt308]

I dont think anybody with 30mm hits in the skull, even fragments, could survive but that is not the point aniway. The point is wich was the ship with killed people by 30mm cannon inside, I would like to know to verify some data, that could denied or confirm some conpiracy theories so usual in many other forums. I am beggining to think mr Nigel Ward mistook the Minerva with other ship, Probably the HMS Brilliant, Argonaut or Antrim, frigates that were heavily attacked by gunfire.

CB, one does not claim that 155mm shell to the head is deathly. Rather one would claim that a 155mm shelling has resulted in head injury. I see no difference with 30mm. It was collateral damage. Either direct fragmentation or material debris.

 

[CharlesBronson]

CB, one does not claim that 155mm shell to the head is deathly. Rather one would claim that a 155mm shelling has resulted in head injury. I see no difference with 30mm. It was collateral damage. Either direct fragmentation or material debris.

Well the statement of "Sharkey" Ward is my source

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=68d_1329322509&comments=1#comments

I cannot ad much more to the equation. I assume many people here had seen some of those Apache guncams and the nasty effect of the 30mm ammunition. The M230 "chain-gun" of the AH-64 use the same cartrigdes the Mirage III and V. And think that those shots are fired from an helicopter in a statonary flight, in the Falklads the aircraft was advancing towards the target at a rate of 500 to 600 knots so the energy deliveredd on target is far more, granted after going trought the ship hull plates (wich in those particular frigates wasnt much 10 or 11 mm thick) it would loss up to 40% energy but stilll...

But my search is aiming to found the ship not 1 or 2 more or less casualties.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"... those shots are fired from an helicopter in a stationary flight"

Apaches "hover" when they're firing their chain guns ..... ?

MM

 

[Matt308]

His point is that the kinetic energy of a fast mover will necessarily be more.

My point is that it was not a direct hit to the head. It most certainly was debris or shrapnel, which MAY have been possible.

 

[CharlesBronson]

"... those shots are fired from an helicopter in a stationary flight"

Apaches "hover" when they're firing their chain guns ..... ?

MM

Yes, like this:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCgrLCZxiUs

 

[michaelmaltby]

@CharlesBronson:

"... I would like to know to verify some data, that could denied or confirm some conspiracy theories so usual in many other forums."

Thankfully, it has been my experience that "conspiracy theories" don't last long on this Forum, CB.

MM

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Apaches "hover" when they're firing their chain guns ..... ?

MM

They don't have to...

I am sure that it is more accurate if you do however.

 

[bowfin]

That surviving Chinook of the Falklands could be said to be one of the most storied individual British aircraft EVER. I know, a pretty big boast, but it flew in the Falklands, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Three of its pilots won the Distinguished Flying Cross while flying it.

Bravo November - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[CharlesBronson]

@CharlesBronson:

"... I would like to know to verify some data, that could denied or confirm some conspiracy theories so usual in many other forums."

Thankfully, it has been my experience that "conspiracy theories" don't last long on this Forum, CB.

MM

You know, there are conspiracy theories about everywhere, from who made the pyramids up to 9/11, obviously I am intelligent enough not to believe most of them. The particular one refering to the Falklands war is if british did hide some of the personel losses on ships. Dont blame me for that, is just something I ve read several years ago and I ve seen keep going in argentine forums.

bowfin

That surviving Chinook of the Falklands could be said to be one of the most storied individual British aircraft EVER. I know, a pretty big boast, but it flew in the Falklands, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Three of its pilots won the Distinguished Flying Cross while flying it.

Bravo November - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I remember seen a vid on that Ch-47, cant remember where though.

 

[Glider]

I don't know what we can add to the conspiracy theory. We know the RN has her down as a damaged ship, we know that at least two were injured and one of those might have been killed. There is a debate over when she arrived at Falklands sound. She may or may have not have been misidentified on the 21st. However with respect to those involved it isn't much of a conspiracy theory.

We know she arrived home on the 3rd September with no obvious signs of battle damage so a bomb or missile hit can be ruled out. A few 30mm holes are easily patched up and painted over on the voyage back.

Can we ask what is the conspiracy theory as it must be bigger than a couple of potential casualties? I am happy to do what I can to get to the bottom of whatever the question is.