The Falklands

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"... Now get this thread back on topic (about the Falklands), or I will CLOSE it as well."

The devil made me dedicate this post to Charles Bronson's love of beautiful women. (Take note, life is cruel, the flesh is weak and the spirit undisciplined ;)) A smoldering Christina Aguilera. Sleep sound, CB. :)

MM
 

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1982, John, but you are right; neither side is giving ground on this, sadly; the issue of oil is just an added complication to an already complicated situation. I couldn't agree more about the mutual co-operation idea, but Argentina's Premier's actions and words have proven she has no intention of contemplating such a thing.

Despite our opinions of David Campbell, I don't believe that the British will sit still if Argentina were to launch hostilities. They will return to the islands in whatever way they can to defend their citizens' honour. You can guarantee that the British military high command are mulling over the details as we speak. You can also guarantee that there is a British nuclear submarine off the coast of Argentina right now, especially since they've sent one of their newest destroyers down on an 'exercise'.

Get out more? I'm already as 'out' as I can get! I'm so 'out' that Google Earth can't even find me!
 
Readie said:
Another view.
BBC News - Argentina claims UK sent nuclear sub near Falklands

Big talking...but, who's going to do the walking?

John
Click to expand...

This Falklands thing is getting busy. Not sure what Argentina are trying to do.

How do they know a nuclear sub is about? Like to know that. As long as it not in El Rio de la Plata then it ain't no business.

'Hector Timerman demanded that the British confirm the location of nuclear submarines in the region'...er....no.
 
Basket, read Mrs. K's profile since her husband's death and you'll have your answer:


@#683 Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner: The iron lady of the Malvinas - Profiles - People - The Independent
 
michaelmaltby said:
"... (we dont claim to be a powerhouse)".

Underachieving. At the turn of the 20th Century - before WW1 - Europeans invested in Argentina, migrated to Argentina, and believed that the 20th Century belonged to Argentina. What happened, CB. Your country has everything ...? :)

The GDP graph I linked to isn't about standard of living, it's about GDP. Gross Domestic Product. Standard of living doesn't create JOBS and wealth. It just creates comfortable people. GDP creates wealth, jobs, and ultimately, PROSPERITY.

Why would the residents of the Falkland wish to join Argentina when such a choice would lower their standard of living, CB? (see Tables link below :))

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita

MM
Click to expand...

My dear Michael, I have the deepest appreciation for the people living in the islands, they are hard working people living in a isolated place in a remote location and they make the most of it. I am also aware that the majority wont vote for a union with the rest of 23 argentine provinces. However I also must add they live in a artificial kind of enviroment in wich everything is quite nice, with artificial high wages, with artificial wealth from almost free imports taxes. They have no unemployment and almost no crime. The challenges that everyday is faced by any average citizen in any large american city (and with american I am talking about the entire continent, Argentina, USA, Canada) or any large british city like the ones caused by violent crime, massive inmigration by lesser countries (and all the tensions associated to that) transportation issues, political confrontation issues, racial issues, religious issues etc, etc are completely strange for them.

That simply is not the real world.

In that "perfect" enviroment, why would anybody see the need of joining to anybody else and perhaps compromising his usual comfy lifestyle ? I am sure that I wont.
Also in the same way I feel there is a large portion of cinism in the Falklands representatives whom always praise and enjoy the benefits of having a relative large british military presence in that territory but in the same time they wont be so happy if in a near future the islands are "invaded" by a large portion of non-military british citizen looking for jobs/new lifestyle, opportunities, they would scream at loud specially if they are aware of the social and cultural empoverishment of the Uk in the past 30 or 20 years.

They have the option to say "no thanks" simply because Argentina is not a military power, if not they will be learning about general San Martin, general Belgrano, 9 de julio, 25 de mayo and others argentine dates/figures in school right now. Fortunately for us argentine we can say proudly that there were no rapes/assasinations/collateral damage on any kelpers by the argentine forces during the the period of time occuping and reclaiming the territory, and that all coming from a supposedly indiciplined, terroristic, amateur military force by a majority of unexperienced soldiers (oh my god, I wrote soldiers, sorry about that ...is conscripts, I dont want to deprive anyone here with that always pleasure giving word) commanded by supposedly "dirty war like" officers.

Some more "professional", well now, well advertised military forces cannot claim the same.
 
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Christina Aguilera? she could crush walnuts with those thighs...

Thirty years ago Roger Waters had this to say:

Breszhnev took Afghanistan and Begin took Beirut,
Galtieri took the Union Jack,
And Maggie, over lunch one day, took a cruiser with all hands,
apparently, to make him give it back...
 
CB, your view of Argentina being as you put it "a supposedly indiciplined, terroristic, amateur military force by a majority of unexperienced soldiers commanded by supposedly "dirty war like" officers" is a view that you continue to advise us about how we, or the rest of the world see the Argentine forces. You are probably right, I have no grounds to believe that the Argentine forces or the Argentine people for that matter are not peaceful, but with regards to the Malvinas, history and your premier's words do not support that point of view. In the words of Bazil Faulty; "you started it..." and while the people on the islands might be pleased that the Argentine occupiers were not bloodthirsty, nor did they commit heinous crimes, I bet they were none too pleased living under their occupation either. It was thrust apon them without option.

As for their peaceful idyllic lifestyle; who are you or the Argentine government to say it is not realistic to continue that way? I live in a remote community, perhaps not that remote, but isolated nevertheless and it is my choice to do so, as it is the Islanders. Island life on the Falklands is clearly sustainable, since it has continued for years, but one constant since 1982 is the threat of Argentine invasion again.
 
Dios Mio CB

Your English is better than my Spanish I wager.

You cannot occupy and reclaim at same time.

Your argument is spurious at best.

Any British Government would last as long as a egg sandwich if they even thought about giving up the Falklands.
 
"... The challenges that everyday is faced by any average citizen ... etc, etc are completely strange for them. That simply is not the real world."

You want to take that away from them ..... :). I don't know, CharlesBronson, I don't know. You've described the exact situation that exits on other islands such as the Hebrides, Faros, Shetlands etc. etc. These island populations of Celts and Anglo Saxons may be living in a bubble(s) but why would you believe that should change .... :)? or believe that the population would want it to change. Are the Falklanders arrogant? Do they make racial taunts at Argentina. Do they look down at y'all on the mainland .... :). I don't know. I do know that islanders can be very prickly ... :), and in this case we're talking islanders standing up for smaller islanders. Couldn't be more of a red flag ...:).

I do not mean to be dismissive, unkind or generally ignorant. I would love to visit Argentina .... my niece (a climber living in Chamonix, France) toured your country in a blue Ford Falcon station wagon and climbed in Patagonia a decade ago. She loved it. :)

But - that said - I feel about the Falklands the way I feel about Formosa/Taiwan. And that is: RESPECT AND PROTECT THE WILL OF THE RESIDENTS (if they are not hurting others or making trouble).

I'm not a socialist :). I don't believe that distributing the misery is any more desirable than sharing the wealth. Anybody can use force to coerce or to impose submission -- the art lies in winning respect and loyalty without coercion.

I do not believe David Cameron sought-out confrontation now any more than I believe Margaret Thatcher sought out confrontation 30 years ago. In both cases a political leader in Argentina picked open an 'issue' that was there ..... under the surface .... waiting to be picked like a scab. It is exactly that kind of political play that was employed in the streets of Germany in the 1920-30's. Sorry to say that, my friend, but there it is.

Oil is a business and an opportunity to reset history ... Norway, Newfoundland, two examples. I strongly suggest what I have suggested from the outset -- and even referenced in private email to you. Co-operation is a win-win for Argentina and for the Falklands. Two half-full glasses make a full glass. Two half-empty glasses make AN EMPTY GLASS :).

Thanks for your frank and thoughtful reply :), CB.

Chairs from the Great White North

MM
 
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I do know that islanders can be very prickly ... , and in this case we're talking islanders standing up for smaller islanders. Couldn't be more of a red flag ....

On the money there Michael.
If we are not prepared to defend our countrymen then who will?

The Falklands was a gift for Thatcher and she made the most of it.
Victory in the South Atlantic aside, we had to suffer another 4 years of misery before the Conservative party / electorate saw sense and got rid of her.

John
 
BBC News - Falkland Islands: A shortage of eggs

South America once traded happily with the islanders, supplying all their needs. But Buenos Aires has been working hard to cut the islands off.

Recently, Argentina persuaded other South American countries to turn Falklands-flagged vessels away from their ports. Ships rounding Cape Horn heading for the Falklands are routinely stopped, searched and delayed, so much so that merchant vessels have largely given up trying

Argentina has also restricted air traffic. There is one flight a week from Chile. Argentina won't allow more than this to pass through its airspace. Now Argentina is threatening to close even this last link with mainland South America.

These are not the actions of a friend.
 
michaelmaltby said:
What is this hostility really all about?

MM
Click to expand...

Good question. Sabre rattling is all good and well but first you need a sabre. Argentina has 2 options in my view...1) Play nice or 2) Invade.

This 3rd option of screaming and stomping like a spoilt child gets no respect from me or the British Government or the Falkland Islanders.
 
Sorry lads but if you want to lure me in a heated political debate you will fail, since I didnt vote FernandezdeK I dont obliged to defend or condemn every action of her, beside the women have enough resources to defend herself. I did my best effort in post 688 to produce an articulate response in the best english language that my fingertips could provide (remember, in my house only spanish and italian is spoken, english is third in my list of languages before german)

Michael, is quite evident reading other topics that you like very much this kind of political oriented posting, but if you care to navigate the 47 pages of this topic you will see I tried hard to post only about the military aspects (wich are by the way quite interesting), so again look at the 688, I wont repeat myself, anybody is free to interpretate the way they like the most.

In the words of Bazil Faulty
Click to expand...
Nuumann: who is that one ?
 
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688 WAS A GREAT POST, CB. It kept the thread alive after Christina Aguillara's thunder thighs ... :) ...

I don't care who you voted for - it's not my concern nor is the state of Argentina's 'geist' ;). But as a taxpaying Argentine, I would be want my government to use diplomacy and economics to secure my future prosperity -- not jingoism.

I always appreciate and admire your clinical detachment from politics, CB, your threads are always interesting and factual. :)

MM
 
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