The Falklands

[Readie]

I find thatsadly ironic. Whatever her other and subsequent failings. Thatcher was an effective war leader. She managed to take the nation from blissful ignorance and apathy over the islands and turn the Argentaine invasion into a searing national issue.

Today, Cameron has an enormous advantage relative to Thatcher.....people are well aware of the islands, and have not really forgiven the Argentines. The country is more well postured for war or at least resistance than it was in 1981. Yet somehow I have my doubts about Cameron. I doubt he has the necessary fortitude and conviction to repeat what thatcher did....

You are quite right Michael.
Thatcher had a more capable armed forces that could deliver an attack at considerable distance. The Canberra has gone and so has the Harrier.
The British are not adversed to war as the recent war on terror has shown, we may be sliding down the world power rankings but, given the chance of a punch up and we'll be there.
Cameron will have to thread carefully..whatever he decides to do.
John

 

[michaelmaltby]

http://www.bobhenneman.info/belgrano.htm

With no offense intended to my Argentine associates on this forum, I suggest that naming a football league "The General Belgrano" is a very sad gesture.

Argentina rename football league after sunk Falklands war battleship General Belgrano - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk

Can you imagine a US football club or division named "Pearl Harbor" or perhaps "December 7"?

Argentina needs to move on. It's neighbor Brazil is becoming an industrial and resource-based powerhouse while Argentina sulks over perceived insults and symbols and looks inward. There's oil off the shores of the Falklands. It will be much more economic to support exploration and extraction from Argentina than from Britain. Can Argentina co-operate ...? Not if they are the declared enemies of the Falklands' citizens.

The original "war" was started as a political distraction. Tell me, please, that this is not more of the same, Mrs. Kirchner.


MM
Proud Canadian

 

[A4K]

Nuuumann, very moving post mate. Poor b@stard.

 

[Readie]

He went on to describe how he was a young 16 year old in 1982 and had been conscripted into going to defend the Malvinas. I can't remember what he said he did there, infantry I think, but he said it was a miserable time. The islands were cold - they had no real shelter and the food was dreadful. The weapons they had were hand-me-downs from WW2. He described how at first everyone thought that they were the best because of what they had done, but when they heard that the Royal Navy were on their way, he said he knew that things were getting serious. He said that a lot of the young guys got scared because the RN has such a big reputation in Argentina. He said that the surrender was the most shameful thing he had ever lived through. His story was most compelling and I really felt sorry for the guy. Needless to say, he got a few more rounds thrown his way to help him drown his sorrows. I still remember that night; very poignant.

That is the other side of it of course. The British Royal Marines SAS versus much less experienced Argentina ground forces.
The outcome was never really in doubt.

I was thoroughly dis gusted with the Sun headline 'GOTCHA' when the Belgrano was sunk. The picture of the sinking ship with men in the water was a low point in British journalism.

John

 

[Readie]

The original "war" was started as a political distraction. Tell me, please, that this is not more of the same, Mrs. Kirchner.


MM
Proud Canadian

Of course Michael. When is it not?

John

 

[rochie]

That is the other side of it of course. The British Royal Marines SAS versus much less experienced Argentina ground forces.
The outcome was never really in doubt.

I was thoroughly dis gusted with the Sun headline 'GOTCHA' when the Belgrano was sunk. The picture of the sinking ship with men in the water was a low point in British journalism.

John

Ahem, cough , cough ......... John there were one or two Para's there as well !!!!!

and Ghurka's as well as a couple of Guards units !

 

[Readie]

Ahem, cough , cough ......... John there were one or two Para's there as well !!!!!

and Ghurka's as well as a couple of Guards units !

Profuse apologies Karl. I was in 'Plymouth mode' when I typed that...

John

 

[rochie]

that would account for it then

 

[parsifal]

Plymouth mode???/ you got me....what is that

 

[CharlesBronson]

http://www.bobhenneman.info/belgrano.htm

With no offense intended to my Argentine associates on this forum, I suggest that naming a football league "The General Belgrano" is a very sad gesture.

Argentina rename football league after sunk Falklands war battleship General Belgrano - News - MirrorFootball.co.uk

Can you imagine a US football club or division named "Pearl Harbor" or perhaps "December 7"?

Argentina needs to move on. It's neighbor Brazil is becoming an industrial and resource-based powerhouse while Argentina sulks over perceived insults and symbols and looks inward. There's oil off the shores of the Falklands. It will be much more economic to support exploration and extraction from Argentina than from Britain. Can Argentina co-operate ...? Not if they are the declared enemies of the Falklands' citizens.

The original "war" was started as a political distraction. Tell me, please, that this is not more of the same, Mrs. Kirchner.


MM
Proud Canadian

Weird to say the list. I think the league subname changes every year, the earlier carried the name of a deceased president.

He went on to describe how he was a young 16 year old in 1982 and had been conscripted into going to defend the Malvinas. I can't remember what he said he did there, infantry I think, but he said it was a miserable time. The islands were cold - they had no real shelter and the food was dreadful. The weapons they had were hand-me-downs from WW2. He described how at first everyone thought that they were the best because of what they had done, but when they heard that the Royal Navy were on their way, he said he knew that things were getting serious. He said that a lot of the young guys got scared because the RN has such a big reputation in Argentina. He said that the surrender was the most shameful thing he had ever lived through. His story was most compelling and I really felt sorry for the guy. Needless to say, he got a few more rounds thrown his way to help him drown his sorrows. I still remember that night; very poignant.

I never got the Chilean girl either...

He is talking a lot of crap THERE WAS NO 16 YEARS OLD soldiers, concription age began at 18

It has been said more than one time that the equipment and supplies of the regular argentine infantry wasnt very good. It was an important factor among others (that are too long to explain here) contribute to undermine the moral/fighting spirit and eventually caused the downfall of the garrison. I dont know what he means with "WW2", the equipment was more like the 1960s, as the main weapon, the FAL rifle.

That situation has been unfortunately exploited many times to ridiculizate the argentine war effort for political/economical/wathever purposes, some people continues to do so, and not only foreigners, you got an example in your own post.

By the way you got really lucky to meet a good looking chilean girl, usually they are plain ugly (with moustaces you know)

 

[CharlesBronson]

Another post to expand my answer

Argentina needs to move on. It's neighbor Brazil is becoming an industrial and resource-based powerhouse while Argentina sulks over perceived insults and symbols and looks inward. There's oil off the shores of the Falklands. It will be much more economic to support exploration and extraction from Argentina than from Britain. Can Argentina co-operate ...? Not if they are the declared enemies of the Falklands' citizens.

The original "war" was started as a political distraction. Tell me, please, that this is not more of the same, Mrs. Kirchner.


MM
Proud Canadian

Brazil is not a powerhouse, is a a country with nice people and some industrial base but the rate of literacy are low and inequalities between social sectors are huge. You can never achived full develeopment if you are anchored by that.
I dont vote F de Kirchner, no in 2007 nor 2011, but the Malvinas thing is a state politics (not sure if that is the proper translation of the term "politica de estado") that means every president since 1944 has been talking with the britons about the issues (some more strongly than others) Of course the 1982 war embittered the things for a planned dialogue but other countries had been in war with more losses and fighting fro more territory and more valuable teroritory that a small southernmost archipielago so I am confident eventually with a couple of leaders less mouthy than F de K / Cameron the thing will go smoothly.

And talking about war and the people, the argentine people was not (during the period of time april-june) against the war...to confront I let you this link, far closer to home (your home ) than the falklands.

File:Mar15-peace-protests-mtl.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[michaelmaltby]

Thanks for the link, CB. Montreal Quebec is Canada's Brazil so I'm sure you'll understand.

"... politica de estado" .... National Interest ...?

Cheers,

MM

 

[CharlesBronson]

Yes, I know, the people of Canada opposed to the war in irak, but canadian Govermente collaborate with the war effort nevertheless, probably that was "political distractions" or "smokescreen to cover internal troubles", who knows.

"... politica de estado" .... National Interest ...?

yea, that is more accurate, grazie.

 

[nuuumannn]

He is talking a lot of crap THERE WAS NO 16 YEARS OLD soldiers, concription age began at 18

Probably a missed memory by me. Why would I have reason to doubt this guy? As for the WW2 era weapons, I used to know a Brit who fought in the Falklands and was at Stanley examining the cache of weapons left behind. He said he saw Lee Enfield rifles and a manner of American rifies from the same period. I've seen photos in a book of such a pile and you can clearly see Lee enfield rifles; the caption even mentions it. Were you there at the time?

As for "ridiculizate the argentine war effort for political/economical/wathever purposes", no one is doing that; certainly not the chap I met. He was genuinely sorry to have been involved. Why wouldn't he be? Don't tell me you think every Argentinian was in favour of going to war? I've read a lot on the Falklands War and apart from the odd bit of tabloid journalism I've read nothing of ridicule of the Argentine forces in serious books and articles on the conflict. Where have you seen it?

By the way you got really lucky to meet a good looking chilean girl, usually they are plain ugly (with moustaces you know)

Off comes the gloves! I've heard the same about Argie women, too!

 

[CharlesBronson]

Probably a missed memory by me. As for the WW2 era weapons, I used to know a Brit who fought in the Falklands and was at Stanley examining the cache of weapons left behind. He said he saw Lee Enfield rifles and a manner of American rifies from the same period. I've seen photos in a book of such a pile and you can clearly see Lee enfield rifles; the caption even mentions it. Why would I have reason to doubt this guy? Were you there at the time? Did you fight in the Falklands War?



Off comes the gloves! I've heard the same about Argie women, too!

Can you provide the photo ? Lee Enfield was never bought by any brach of the argentine armed forces, the standarization of rifles began in 1871 with the Remington rolling Block, then 1891 with the Mauser 7,65mm, 1909 again Mauser with modernized m98 action, 1962 with the FN FAL manufactured under licence by FM, 1994 Steyr AUG and M16 (although the FAL is still is in use by the green volunteer and Mountain troops) The Marines deployed some Garand-Berettas M1959 in the war but hardly any similarity with an Lee-Enfield.

I know however British deployed Lee-Enfields caliber .308 as sniper rifles maybe you see one captured and then "recaptured".

There is a good reason to not believe, if the narration start with a lie (or inexact memory if you like) there are fair chances that the rest of the story isnt complete correct also.

I wasnt old enough to participate in that war, I was born in 1979. The stories of veterans are always appealing stories but in this topic I think is best to stick to the facts .

I've heard the same about Argie women, too!

The argentine women is in such level that I dont going even to discuss that. Come and see, eventually you will be thankful. The case of Chile in particular is pityful, the chilean Tv is packed with with argentine anchors, presenter, models, actresses, etc simply because the locals are too damn ugly.

 

[rochie]

Plymouth mode???/ you got me....what is that

plymouth being all things Royal Navy.
i did originaly just put Para's but thought i'd better include the other as well being as good a chap i am !

 

[Glider]

Its worth remembering that the standard British sniper rifle in the Falklands was a L42 a modified Lee Enfield, Argentina may have also used similar WW2 based rifles for sniping. The standard weapon was of course the FN rifle and there wee plenty to go around. The standard weapon carried by British support or second line troops was the Sterling SMG but in the open vista's of the Falkland most people swapped them for captured Argentine weapons. These were very similar to the British SLR and didn't cause any problems with training or use.


As for the person who was spinning a tale about being in the Argentine Army, tragically there are people like him are in every country.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"... the war in irak".

How did we get there ..?

MM

 

[michaelmaltby]

My favorite "ugly, mustached" Chilean woman ...

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

How dare you Michael!!! You know damn well that there are no hot women outside of Argentina!