The Greatest Fighter Jet of All Time.

[FLYBOYJ]

My point about the F105 was it wasnt a maneuvering type of fighter. The F4 had a better power to weight ratio and generally did better.

You're right although based on the fact the the -105 was a high speed Nuke Bomber, it possessed good acceleration. A dogfighter? no, but how the NVAF tried to ambush it made it deadly if the Mig-17 didn't score the first time. I was talking to one of out tow pilots today who flew -105s, he said the plane, when clean would just keep building up speed until it fell apart....

 

[syscom3]

I can believe that. Plus anything that came from Republic Aircraft was built solid!

 

[lesofprimus]

Both were flying "D" models and both hosed them with cannon fire.

And what happened to those morons who decided that modern day jets didnt need cannons for dogfighting??

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Both were flying "D" models and both hosed them with cannon fire.

And what happened to those morons who decided that modern day jets didnt need cannons for dogfighting??

Yep - that's where the -105 had a BIG advantage over the F-4. That centerline cannon installed later on the F-4 was a band-aid....

 

[lesofprimus]

That centerline cannon installed later on the F-4 was a band-aid....

I agree, although several pilots did claim Migs with that cannon...

 

[FLYBOYJ]

That centerline cannon installed later on the F-4 was a band-aid....

I agree, although several pilots did claim Migs with that cannon...

I guess that cannon was a b*tch to get a good fireing solution. Yep - the most skilled SOBs you'll ever see!

 

[pbfoot]

i recall reading the f105 cannon was pointed down a slight angel for ground attack

 

[lesofprimus]

I dont recall that at all....

 

[FLYBOYJ]

i recall reading the f105 cannon was pointed down a slight angel for ground attack

Nope - it's in the nose

http://www.uen.org/utahlink/tours/admin/tour/21/21f105Dgun.jpg

 

[syscom3]

In 1972, when the F4 was finally flown by pilots who had relearned the dogfighting skills, they did a far better job than the F105's.

I would say the F105's were the end of the 1950's era designs and philosophy and the F4 the bridge between them and the fighters deployed in the 70's.

 

[102first_hussars]

No sweat - Max Brestel shot down 2 on March 10, 1967 as did David Waldrop Aug 23, 1967. Both were flying "D" models and both hosed them with cannon fire.

Your sig, is actually footage from an Thuds point of veiw, I knew I recognized that picture, it was from a book of mine.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

No sweat - Max Brestel shot down 2 on March 10, 1967 as did David Waldrop Aug 23, 1967. Both were flying "D" models and both hosed them with cannon fire.

Your sig, is actually footage from an Thuds point of veiw, I knew I recognized that picture, it was from a book of mine.

Yep - I think it was gun camera footage from Maj. Ralph Kuster who shot down this Mig during the same time period.

 

[102first_hussars]

i recall reading the f105 cannon was pointed down a slight angel for ground attack

Well in WW2 ground crew would slightly adjust the guns downward so the plane could strafe the target and not fly directly into their target.

 

[evangilder]

Which airplanes?

 

[pbfoot]

ref the gun on the 105 being pointed at slight angle for ground attack i got the info from a trilogy of fiction novels by Tom wilson these fictional books cover 105 ops from Takhli the author had 500 combat hours in 105s one of the best reads i've had on fighter ops so the info might be incorrect but i can't confirm either way . Any way they are one of the best I've read

 

[FLYBOYJ]

There are guys who flew the -105 where I work at. I'll ask them....

 

[102first_hussars]

Basically any plane that had a barrell stickin out of the wing, because all the mechanics had to do was adjust the "stablizers" that held the barrels still, doing that they could slightly tilt the cannons or mg's downwards.

I would imagine this was done quite frequently with the P-47's winged 50.cal and the P-38's nosed cannons.

I do know that for low altitude runs the guns would be tilted the same angle as the bomb load underneath, so that the pilot could confirm where a bomb will hit just by firing a few rounds to see where they strike and then release,

If you have seen the movie 'We Were Soldiers' you may remeber the A1 skyraider doing the exact same thing before he dropped the Napalm.

 

[syscom3]

I know of no P38 that had its MG and connon adjusted for downward elevation.

 

[evangilder]

I know a former P-47 mech too. He never mentioned guns being pointed downward either. Shooting ahead of a bomb run shows the angle that you have. Having guns pointed downward to do that would give you the wrong trajectory. I don't believe that the mounts for the guns could have been adjusted enough to make that big of a difference anyway.

Where did you get the info about adjusting guns downward?

 

[FLYBOYJ]

The manufacturer specifies boresighting requirements in their maintenance manuals that puts a "harmonized" concentration (kill box) at about 1000' in front of the aircraft. Here's a site on it...

http://www.cfgse.calebflerk.com/boresighting.htm

It would be impossible to boresight the guns "down" and have the gun sight accurate. I've never heard of such thing!!!!