The Guns We Own

[GrauGeist]

I personally haven't ever tested this theory, but my understanding is that generally mediocre accuracy from the Ruger No.1 is because of the way the wooden foreend is hung on the gun. Folks try to isolate the wood from the barrel and sometimes put in a tensioning screw to put pressure from the foreend hanger to the barrel and tune it for accuracy.

- Ivan.

Ivan, is this something that plagued the Mini14 throughout it's entire run, or was there differences between the years?

I like your .300 Savage GrauGeist. That's a true classic.

Slaterat

Thanks slaterat, I agree!

When I was a youngster, I had the opportunity to run some rounds through a family member's .300 Savage, and I immediately fell in love with it. It was the model with the brass rib over the foresight and brass round indicator, instead of the usual steel version. It took me decades to find a similiar one!

 

[Amsel]

There are many products out that you can get to make your Mini-14 more accurate. Those thin barreled older types are not very straight shooting. I really like the actions on the Rugers though.

 

[Magister]

The new Mini-14's have thicker barrels and are purported to have better accuracy due to more barrel stiffness.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Hello GrauGeist et al.

The characteristics of the Mini-14 that make it less than optimal for accuracy haven't changed much over the decades. The barrel is thin and fairly poor quality from other's descriptions. Ruger also makes a "Heavy Barrel" version, but I don't know how much of an improvement that was. I don't happen to own either, so I can't confirm barrel quality as I am writing this. The barrel is also only 18 inches long, so long range ballistics are not good. I remember from the last one I disassembled that the op rod wobbled all over the place and used the stock to keep things more or less stable. I was looking at it with the idea of using techniques from accurizing M1A / M14 rifles on it and they simply wouldn't work as far as the gas system was concerned.

There was a company called "Accuracy Systems" that could basically rebuild a Mini-14 into a 1 MOA or better rifle, but the cost of this was considerably more than a brand new Colt AR-15 at the time and a tuned AR-15 is still more accurate.

The click adjustable rear sight (not ranch rifle) is too coarse with about 2 MOA adjustments per click, but folks sometimes file extra notches so that there are eight clicks per revolution for windage. I remember pulling targets at a high power range when the fellow shooting at a nearby target was hitting first one one side of the bull and then on the other but never could get one in the center. I was told later that he was firing a Mini-14. Accuracy was about the same as the M1 Garands on the line (2-4 MOA with LC Ball).

Ruger was also planning something called a XGI .308 Winchester version and advertised it heavily as a competitor to the M14 types. Near as I can tell, this was never actually sold anywhere. I personally have never seen one.

- Ivan.

 

[renrich]

We better cherish the guns we own because I suspect that more gun control is in the offing, especially with the so called "assault weapons." Evidence is a recent comment by obama that "90% of the weapons seized by Mexican authorities in the drug wars come from the US." This information has also been echoed by H clinton and diane feinstein. Seemingly the obama administration is going to help Mexico by somehow inhibiting this "flood" of weapons going into Mexico from the US. Problem is that obama and his minions are misinformed(or maybe lying?) The BATF says that "of the guns submitted to the BATF by Mexican authorities for tracing, 90% had US origins." In other words, if the weapon has a US manufacturer trademark or serial number, the gun is submitted to the BATF for tracing. If the weapon was manufactured outside the US or has a foreign serial number, it is not submitted to the BATF for tracing. Big difference! The obama administration has been asked to clarify this situation but so far have not reaponded. Does anyone believe that if all gun supply from the US was somehow cut off, the Mexican drug dealers would run out of guns or the Mexican drug wars would diminish?

 

[Amsel]

I agree renrich, the 2nd Amendment must be protected. Now would be a good time to join the NRA if you haven't already. You may not agree with them 100% of the time but they fight hard to protect our liberty. Especially the liberty of life.

 

[renrich]

I am a life member of the NRA and I hope that every gun owner and every freedom loving American will support the NRA. As Amsel says, the NRA does not always please me but they are a major bulwark against the left for liberty loving citizens of the US. Frankly, I would be chary of showing photos online of my guns.

 

[Matt308]

Frankly, I would be chary of showing photos online of my guns.

And thus you don't see me chiming in. I trust my gov't about as far as I can throw it.

 

[Torch]

thats why I didn't post anything else,had a brain fart for a moment.

 

[GrauGeist]

I enjoy responsible gun ownership along with a vast majority (note: majority) of Americans, and I would offer a little bit of friendly advice to anyone snooping around, who would be taking notes on "who has what" for thier report:

I also own a few knives, claw hammers, a number of screw-drivers (assorted tips) and a couple of vehicles that weigh about 3,200 pounds each and let's not forget the drawer full of butter knives. Any of which can cause extremly painful bodily harm and I am proficient in the use of any of the above. So better make a note to round up anything sharper than, but including, a teaspoon while you're at it.

Oh, almost forgot:

bring alot of help

 

[Matt308]

...and a lunch. It likely will be an all day job to kick GrauGeist's ass.

 

[comiso90]

Today was a close one....

I went to a Gunshow in Tampa. There weren't enough historical items but it was very cool anyway. I fell in love with this baby:
Springfield Armory

If I was back home in Cali... I prob woulda whipped out my credit card. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be much open land here in fla so I couldnt rationalize the purchase.

Holy crap, it was beautiful.

 

[Ivan1GFP]

Hello Comiso90,
No open land is no excuse for not buying a M1A / M14. I'm sure you can find a 100 yard range somewhere.

Hello GrauGeist,
Hopefully this country will never get to the point where it is chasing its own citizens for exercising a right acknowledged in the Constitution. FWIW: 3 out of 4 people in my family are Life NRA members. My wife isn't, but before the kids came along, she did quite a lot of shooting with me.

BTW, I noticed an odd thing. Your quote of my post earlier was of the Ruger No.1 but the question was about the Mini-14. I didn't notice it until now, so we both probably had the same thing in mind.

- Ivan.

 

[Rasenpfeil]

I enjoy responsible gun ownership along with a vast majority (note: majority) of Americans, and I would offer a little bit of friendly advice to anyone snooping around, who would be taking notes on "who has what" for thier report:

I also own a few knives, claw hammers, a number of screw-drivers (assorted tips) and a couple of vehicles that weigh about 3,200 pounds each and let's not forget the drawer full of butter knives. Any of which can cause extremly painful bodily harm and I am proficient in the use of any of the above. So better make a note to round up anything sharper than, but including, a teaspoon while you're at it.

Oh, almost forgot:

bring alot of help

You forgot the "Old Blade"... ya know the one... to me, it seemed very experienced....

 

[Matt308]

Comiso, you should have gone for it. M1As are running $1499 MSRP with little discount. Tacking on about a 4-8% FFL cost + tax, you are talking about some change. Owning M1As is akin to acknowledgement that M1 Garands were the best WWII weapon and their only improvement was a box magazine.

Do it buddy. You won't regret it even if it is a closet queen.

Oh... and buy as many mags as you can afford (12 min). And stock up on .308. Ammo prices are through the roof and are likely to rise if Obama get his excise tax wishes. You think a $1 a shot is alot... just wait for it.

 

[drgondog]

Hey Drgondog,

I've pulled apart a few M1A, M1 Garands, and Mini-14s before. The receivers aren't all that different, but the gas system on a Mini-14 is more like a M1 Carbine than a M14 rifle. The wooden stock can NOT be clearanced away from the "Op rod" as you might do on M1 and M14. Accuracy of the couple I have fired is about as poor as the ones you all are describing. The rear sight is also a bit too coarse in adjustment in the standard gun and not worth describing in the Ranch Rifle.

- Ivan.

I totally agree all points, particulary the Op rod clearance - but bedding the recivers did help a little on the Mini 14 - just not enough to suit me. I never worried particularly about anything except receiver and trigger on any of them.

 

[comiso90]

Comiso, you should have gone for it. M1As are running $1499 MSRP with little discount. Tacking on about a 4-8% FFL cost + tax, you are talking about some change. Owning M1As is akin to acknowledgement that M1 Garands were the best WWII weapon and their only improvement was a box magazine.

Do it buddy. You won't regret it even if it is a closet queen.

Oh... and buy as many mags as you can afford (12 min). And stock up on .308. Ammo prices are through the roof and are likely to rise if Obama get his excise tax wishes. You think a $1 a shot is alot... just wait for it.

I respect the weapon to much to have it sit in a closet! At least its an east cart to re-load.

freak'n beautiful!

.

 

[drgondog]

And thus you don't see me chiming in. I trust my gov't about as far as I can throw it.

ditto

 

[drgondog]

Today was a close one....

I went to a Gunshow in Tampa. There weren't enough historical items but it was very cool anyway. I fell in love with this baby:
Springfield Armory

If I was back home in Cali... I prob woulda whipped out my credit card. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be much open land here in fla so I couldnt rationalize the purchase.

Holy crap, it was beautiful.

There are a lot of places in FL once you leave the coast. If you live in the south the Everglades is perfect for any type of shooting you want to do.. and there is a fair amount of public land in the interior.

I suspect that hunting with a rifle in the Panhandle is still verboten because of the thick pine cover.

 

[renrich]

I have another Ruger I am proud of. It is a Model 77 bolt action, I bought perhaps 30 or so years ago. It was in 7 x 57 and I bought it on a whim. I handloaded a bunch of loads and the accuracy was so so. Read an article in "American Rifleman" about someone who converted a Model 95 or 98 Mauser(I can't remember which) in 7 x 57 into a 284 Winchester. The bolt face of 7X57 and 284 Win is identical so only rechambering is necessary. Also read that Fred Huntington who owned RCBS dies had done the same thing. The 284 Win has a case capacity the same as the 3006 or 270 Win but the 284 Win was designed to be used in a short action like a semi auto or lever action rifle and the overall length of the factory load is only 2.8 inches. Consequently some of the case capacity is used up if a long bullet is used. The key to the conversion is to have the chamber deepthroated so the bullet can be seated out further. The 284 Win case has a short neck so bullet choice is critical. In other words, if the bullet is seated too far out, the bullet will not be held firmly because the neck is so short. I went to Ed Shilen's shop and asked him if the conversion was feasible and he said, "gosh yes, I have one I have done for myself." Called Ruger and talked to the guys at their factory and asked the same question and they said it could be done but why? Typical Yankees who had never hunted in West Texas or Colorado where long shots are the norm. The 7 x 57 is at best a 200-300 yard cartridge. Anyway, I made up a dummy cartridge, using the 140 grain Nosler Partition. The cartridge is 3 and an 8th inches long and the base of the bullet is exactly at the bottom of the neck. Shilen charged me, I seem to remember, 25 dollars to rechamber. I already had a Leupold 2 x 7 fitted and I bought a Canjar trigger and had it fitted. Started working up loads using 4350 powder and like my No 1, the hotter the load, the tighter the groups. The rifle has a 22 inch light barrel and I finally settled on 58 grains of 4350 which is a compressed load and theoretically should give more than 3000 FPS. The 284 Win is a very strong case and there are absolutely no signs of excessive pressure. The load chronographed at 3100 FPS and from a rest, it will print min of angle three shot groups. I explain the accuracy because the twist, nine and one half, is ideal for that bullet at that velocity, or more likely the rechambering done by Shilen is perfectly concentric with the bore. Interestingly the down range ballistics are almost identical to my 270 Win load withe 150 grain bullet. Zeroed at 300 yards it is 18 to 20 inches low at 500 yards with more than 1000 pounds of energy at that range. I made a one shot kill(lucky as hell) on a Pronghorn, sitting with a loop sling, downhill, no wind, at 640 paces with witnesses. I estimated it was 500 yards and must have held too high. The rifle and scope with sling and four rounds weighs less than 8 pounds and would be good as a mountain rifle on all North American game, excluding Brown Bear. Wrote the late Finn Aagard describing the rifle and load and he concurred in a nice reply. The big problem with the rifle is that factory loads won't shoot well because of the deep throat and much shooting with those loads would probably erode the throat. I have eight handloads left and gave away all my empty cases and dies and press and all so I am out of business. Oh well.