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Gixxerman, I forgot to remind you that you was comparing the T-34-85 with the original Panther, when the correct would be compare it with the Panther II.
T-34/85 was not in same leage with Panther.. more like between the Panther and Pz IVH-J.. and a lot closer to Pz IV.. but it was good enough, so was Pz IV till war end...
Those Marxist teachers that are unfornately doing a lot of damage to our education system, and now they are loving put the partial view of the Soviet Union as the country who saved mankind from Nazism. Sad...
A couple of things occur to me in this debate.
The comments about the Russian tanks are if you don't mind me saying so typical.
Where is this happening?
To be perfectly frank Jenisch I find that sort of one-sided view as silly as the opposing one which says that it was the west that won WW2.
Of course it was both acting together.
However only a ridiculously rabid anti Russian (communism has gone, it's ok, there's no need to be afraid of admitting when they did things that benefitted the rest of us) would look at the sacrifices and suffering that went on in Russia and conclude that the bulk of WW2 was not fought to the death for decided there.
Not all of it but certainly the greater part.
But this is truth. The T-34 scared only when it was introduced, because despite all their limitations the Germans destroyed most of them, and could have destroyed them at an unacceptable level if they were alone against the Soviets.
Germany had the superior technology popularly claimed, the difference is that Germany was unable to employ it's techonological advantage in the two-front war it faced historically. With a single front war, without blockade, need to built submarines, LL to the Soviets, bombing, German forces in others fronts, etc, the quantity and quality of the German equipment would very probably do damage in a much larger scale than historically, and again I really have my doubts if the Soviets would be able to hold. I'm with the authour John Mosier in a lot of his arguments about this.
The early 37mm and short barreled 50mm Panzer III and low velicity 75mm Panzer IV sored against the 'superior' T-34 for several reasons; one was a good radio which meant that the Panerwaffe could often advance with the confused T-34 shooting from behined. The other is the fact that German tanks had 5 crew members. The commander wasn't trying to be commander and gun aimer at the same time. Better optics and better precision tended to help as well.
Really?
How many Panther 2's made it to the front.
Zero, if I recall correctly.
Whereas several thousand T34/85's did.
Siegfried only 6048 V2 were made, 3750 man hours at 10,000 is just a bs projection.
Nowhere did I say the V2 project cost more than the Manhatten project, I said the combined cost of the V1 AND V2 projects were more than the Manhatten Project. If you add in B-29 developement cost ( the 2nd most expensive allied project) It does almost equal. But you're comparing to successful allied programs, with 2 German failures.
Lets just compare the V1 and V2s targetting Antwerp, 4000 V1s, 1700 V2s, produced in Antwerp provence ( have to consider the whole provence, since only about 10% hit Antwerp itself) 3700 killed, 6000 injured. That by anyone's standards is a dismal failure.
It seems all your Nazi superweapons were just a few months or weeks from perfection, strange isn't it.
Thanks for the informations Siegfried.
Other thing the Germans tanks were already starting to have by 1945 was nigh-vision equipment. Maybe they would have it earlier if there was a war in a single front and much more resources.
The Germans never seemed to realize that to win a war you have to get dependable, usable, weapons to the troops to win wars.
The last few years was just a comedy of errors, too exotic weapons, rushed into production before they were ready was not enough. You don't have to impress your enemy, you just have to kill him. If they had concentrated on a few weapons, and not wasted too much resources on too many exotic research projects that didn't have a chance of reaching maturity in time, it might have made a difference.