The ol' Contrail Conspiracy thing (again)

[vikingBerserker]

NICE!

 

[Screaming Eagle]

Awesome.

 

[Vassili Zaitzev]

Hahaha Payback is a b!tch. Nice one Grau!

 

[FLYBOYJ]

From a forum I participate in...

"The Chemtrail Hoax

Six Reasons why "Chemtrails" are a Hoax
I first heard about "chemtrails" about five years ago, from an individual on a pre-Y2k preparedness forum. About six months later, I logged onto one of the chemtrail forums, and followed many links, evaluating both pro-chemtrail and anti-chemtrail research. I have also talked to many people about these phenomena, including meteorologists, commercial airplane pilots/crew, and other aerospace engineers with direct experience with large fixed-wing aircraft. I came to conclusions that I would like to discuss below; but first, I'd like to tell you about me, because it may (or may not) give you some insights as to why I believe what I do.

First, I want to emphasize that I do not speak for, or act as an agent for, my employer, The Boeing Company, in any way, shape, or form. My views are completely my own and do not necessarily reflect the views on anyone else at Boeing. As a matter of fact, I doubt if most of my colleagues have even heard of chemtrails. However, with thirty years in the aerospace/defense business, experience as a pilot (small aircraft only) and a habit of reading a lot, I hope that my views have something to back them up. Okay, here's my read on the view that some contrails are more than normal jet engine exhaust:

It's completely bogus. The idea that long-lasting contrails are anything other than normal contrails, in my belief, fails on six counts:

1. The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence.

2. The logistics of a massive spraying program would be an order of magnitude higher than the Manhattan Project, the Apollo Moon Landing, or the Vietnam War -- and simply could not be hidden from any oversight.

3. There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed.

4. Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up by any reliable data (and is actually contradicted by others).

5. There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone.

6. Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions.

Now let's look at those counts in a bit more detail.

(1) The existence of a huge and sinister plot is completely lacking in evidence. The President; Congress; SecDef; Director of the FAA; the entire command structure of the various armed services; every military man or woman who flies, maintains, fuels, and overhauls aircraft; every commercial pilot and crew member; every meteorologist; and every aerospace engineer who builds, sells, modifies, or maintains the entire fleet of worldwide commercial aircraft comprise a group of about half a million people. Every one of them would have to be in on the plot. And in the X number of years that this "chemtrail" stuff has been going on, NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THEM has come out and said anything about it! What is the chance of a plot that requires the help of a half-million people being secret for more than six milliseconds? Zero.
As a matter of fact, there is no evidence of any sort of plot of any kind by the Bilderbergers, Illuminati, International Zionists, CFR, NWO, the International House of Pancakes, or anyone else.

Is our government corrupt and immoral? I believe so. Is the UN controlled by a bunch of socialist third-world losers with their hands out for the US to feed them and fight their wars for them? I think so, too. But that does NOT mean that they are heading a huge, secret, centuries-old plot to have the Black Helicopters Manned By Crack Bolivian Troops In Blue Berets Haul Us Off To The Secret Concentration Camps In Roachspit, Texas Where We Will Be Forced To Knit UN Flags And Eat Ebola-Burgers. It just means that they're crooks! So what else is new?

(2) The logistics of a massive spraying program. In order to have the massive worldwide spraying that the chemtrail-protagonists talk about would require thousands of aircraft, flying 24/7 shifts, with the additional support infrastructure, a bazillion pilots and ground crew, and the combined efforts of every employee at Boeing, Lockheed-Martin, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon, and even Airbus Industrie. It isn't there.
(3) There is no evidence whatsoever of aircraft modified to perform some of the spraying methodologies that are proposed. The only things I have ever seen on an aircraft that shoot things out (besides the engine exhaust) is the toilet and the fuel dump orifices, often at the wing tip. If the aircraft are squirting chemicals out of the fuel dump nozzles, what's in the fuel tanks? Poisonous chemicals? Huh-uh. (One exception to this is a military version of a civilian aircraft called TACAMO, a Navy variant of the AWACS aircraft. It has these oddball nozzles near the base of the wings. But they're still fuel-dump nozzles; they've merely been moved inboard because the TACAMO has reconnaissance pods at the wingtips, and they don't want to jettison JP-8 over the million-dollar electronics.)

Bear in mind that you don't just strap in a couple of big tanks and poke the nozzles out through the aircraft fuselage. There are VERY stringent engineering details to be worked out regarding structural integrity, movable center of gravity, environmental protection for the crew and poison-loaders, etc. Almost all major mods to an aircraft are done under subsequent contract to the original builder. Since no one at Boeing knows anything about such mods (and I've asked around) this means it either wasn't done, or everyone else (but me) in the company is in on the secret. Huh-uh.

(4) Anecdotal "evidence" of any illnesses caused by contrails is not backed up. One of the hypotheses of "chemtrails" is that they're toxic/infectious/bad juju. Various people report that they came down with flu-like symptoms after a heavy "spray day". As someone who does a lot of travel (domestic and international), I've flown out of a lot of airports and through a lot of other aircraft's contrails over the past five years.
If the poison-chemtrail hypothesis had any merit, there would be tons of sick passengers crawling off the 0900 shuttle to LAX; I've never seen 'em, nor has anyone I've talked with. If there is some weird residue in the contrails other than water with traces of JP-8, you'd see aircraft taxiing into the concourse with some sort of crud over the leading edges. I've never seen any of that, nor has anyone I've talked with.
One possible explanation for those flu-like symptoms? Flu. There's tons of it going around, and it's been that way since 1918.

(5) There has never been any evidence of anyone collecting some of this "chemtrail" material in situ, having it tested by any reputable laboratory, and presented to anyone. With all the interest in this crud, why hasn't anyone ever flown up to a "chemtrail", sampled some of the stuff, and brought it back to a reputable lab for test and reported on it?

One site purporting to talk about a laboratory testing a sample told how some individual scraped "something" off the side of a house, and sent it to one of the chemtrail protagonists. This individual sent it to a laboratory where he says they reported it had some bacteria in it. But then the individual says the lab "changed its mind" and said there was nothing wrong. Not only that, but our friend said he would not tell us the name of either the lab or the investigator because of ... of... something or other. That sure raises a credibility issue to me! Another researcher says he has the information, but he wants to be "compensated" for all the work he's put in before he tells us his tale. Puh-leez!

If there were just one case of someone with any credibility collecting some of this junk before it falls to the earth and gets worms on it, then sends it to a lab where objective individuals can review it under open conditions and publish their findings, that might lend a bit more credence to the whole chemtrail business. I'm waiting, but I don't think I'll skip dinner.

(6) Every characteristic of chemtrails can be just as logically and rationally explained by normal contrails under normal (but differentiating) atmospheric conditions.

But first, let?s take a minute and discuss what contrails are, anyway.

Contrails happen when the water vapor from the jet?s exhaust freezes into an ice cloud. If the temperature is at or below ?40 degrees and the relative humidity is at a hundred percent or greater, then the ice cloud will stay frozen, and even act as a nucleus for other ice clouds to form around. This is why sometimes a contrail will ?spread? to form larger clouds. If you have enough aircraft flying and making contrails, and the atmospheric conditions at that altitude are ?proper? for contrail formation and persistence, then you can have the entire sky covered with thin clouds.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Part 2

If the temperature is above minus forty degrees or less than 100% relative humidity, then the ice crystals will sublime (turn back into gas without going through a liquid phase, like dry ice) in about a minute or less and the contrails will disappear.

This increased cloud cover, by the way, can have serious long-term effects, when you think about it. More cloud cover means cooler days (because the clouds block the sunlight coming in during the day) and warmer nights (because the clouds block the heat radiating out into space at night). This ?diurnal temperature delta? or the difference between day and night temperatures, could have some long-term effects, because most plants and animals in a particular environment have adapted to a temperature difference of so many degrees. When this figure is left, the plants and animals might not be able to thrive.

So when you put it this way, contrails can have a possible bad effect on the environment. But that?s not what the chemtrail-believers are talking about.

Now to the ?weird chemtrails?:

?Dashed? contrails? Sometimes you?ll see contrails that start and stop, just like dashed lines. Some Chemtrail-believers say that such things are ?proof? of chemtrails, because the start and stop contrails are the result of the ?spray nozzles? getting stuck or something.

Now does it seem kind of odd to you that a powerful gang running secret plot which includes a million people can?t seem to be able to keep a simple on-off nozzle working? Actually, the reasons that you have start-and-stop contrails is because the atmosphere is not constant and smooth; it?s very turbulent (which is why we have clouds and wind). It?s pretty common to have one spot at, say, 35,000 feet where the temperature/humidity is at ?40/100%, yet only a quarter mile away, the temperature?s a degree or so higher, or the humidity is a percentage point less. That?s enough to stop the contrail from persisting. And believe me, an aircraft flying at 550 miles per hour covers that quarter mile in just a couple of seconds!

Circular contrails? Often, an airport may be backed up and the air traffic control folks might ?stack up? aircraft in a circular holding pattern for a half-hour (or even longer). If that plane?s flying in a circle at the proper temperature/humidity profile, you?ll see circular contrails.

Two ?side-by-side? contrails, one that dissipates in a matter of minutes, and the other which persists for hours? The chances are that they?re not side-by-side, but one is a thousand feet or more higher than another. When you?re looking at aircraft at a cruising altitude, you simply can?t tell which aircraft is closer. You have no frame of reference except the sky, and besides six miles high is just too far for us to have any kind of depth perception at all.

?Tic-tac-toe? contrails? No matter where you live in the continental United States, you are probably within view of at least one North-South and one East-West air corridor. So you might be seeing three aircraft on the DFW (Dallas/Fort Worth to LAX (Los Angeles International) corridor and four from Phoenix Sky Harbor to Seattle-Tacoma International corridor. These flights could be five minutes and two thousand feet apart, but if they?re high enough, you?ll see seven lines crossing ? just like a tic-tac-toe. (you probably won?t see any X?s or O?s, though).

Conclusion

So why the big deal with "Chemtrails"? I think there're popular on the boards for several reasons.

1. Conspiracies are fun! If you think you know what they're REALLY doing, maybe it makes you feel more powerful and on the "inside". Only the "sheeple" believe all the government lies, where WE know better. You remember the sheeple, of course -- they were those poor fools who believed that Y2K was going to be, at worse, a bump in the road. Shows how dumb they were, right?

2. Most chemtrail conspiracy theorists simply don't know much about things that would help them to disbelieve such hypotheses: stuff like engineering, meteorology, government procurement, military force structure, etc. But most importantly, the most of these individuals simply don't understand how scientific investigation and research works. They confuse opinion with facts, equate hypotheses with theories, do not reason logically, engage in ad hominem arguments, cannot or will not read peer-reviewed journals --- the list goes on and on.

Maybe I shouldn't get so exercised about the whole chemtrail business. In a way, it's like the belief in the Easter Bunny -- it keeps the folks happy; and as long as they don't try to shoot down a "chemtrail" plane, or assassinate or otherwise harass people who disagree with them, they're harmless.

But there are so many important things in the world that I consider a real priority -- Government intrusion into our lives, a nutburg foreign and domestic policy, the chance that a natural disaster may justify all those old Y2K preps, the pollution of our atmosphere and destruction of our environment by hydrocarbon burning -- that I hate to think that well-meaning but naive people on these and other forums are wasting their time on what is no more than a silly and cruel hoax."

 

[vikingBerserker]

Excellent post FB!

 

[Soren]

Yeah, the guy came back with a post and I haven't responded yet. Amazingly enough, I have real life stuff going on that needs my attention, and sparring with an "over educated" half-wit isn't at the top of the list. But I will, yes indeed. I'll make 'em wait it out...kind of like a mental seige

The funny thing I notice about these clowns and thier chemtrail "symptoms", is that it's more likely attributed to vehicle and industrial pollution, drinking diet soft drinks, licking lead-based paint chips and serious hypocondria plus a whole shopping cart full of other things.

By the way VZ, there is a little "net" justice once in a while...a number of years ago, I got into a beef with a poster on a local message board, and this guy was going off on me about some local politics. I pretty much told the guy his info and facts were wrong, because I was directly involved in the issue, and he was just blowing noise out of the side of his neck and way off base. He came right back and told me he would find me and "hurt me bad, etc etc"...and this went on for a while with his flaming me and acting all tough in a number of threads. I pretty much ignored the idiot and it kind of died down.

Shortly after that, I was over at my friend's place, and his neighbor came over to tell him something that was going on with a local message board...I perked up and asked what that was all about. He told me some a-hole was hassling him, and he was really mad about it and wanted my friend to use some "tools" and find out where the guy was. I fished a little for some info, and discovered that this scrawny 20-something idiot was the douchebag that had been threatening me earlier. Without saying a word, I nailed the clown, got him to the floor and drug him outside by his hair. Once there, I told him who I was and if I ever saw him again, it would be his last day on earth.

He took off for home, and as he was leaving, I said "funny how real-life leaves bruises, huh?"

Never did see him on the boards again...dunno why...

That's a direct thumbs up from me! I can only wish I get the same chance some day, man I would love to get my hands on one those suckers.

 

[GrauGeist]

LOL Soren, yeah...that was a once in a blue-moon event, you just don't get that kind of coincidence every day.

Great post Joe! Man, I'd love to shove that under thier noses...

However, the saga continues now...there's two of 'em! So I had to reply...

Here's thier replies (get a beer and sit back, this is REAL interesting)...
This is from the first guy:

I'm not talking about contrails; and I know what happens at high alltitudes.
If you've see so many of the flying spraying by cargo size planes going on, much of them are at much lower alltitudes.
I'll keep it simple. What are they doing then? Is Cris-crossing in the air, flying parallel, simpling flying in a bit of an order, with no destination, well is that pilot training, while huge amounts of spray come out of the back as well as engine area and slowly spread out in a most unusual pattern and some colours. There are photos of these planes showing large spray nozels on the tail end, for the purpose spreading and spraying chemicals. After spray flights the air have been tested on the ground by scientists, proven to have barium, fungus, to toxic chemicals, and much more. Also It's been admitted spraying has been done in England, all the way to Winnipeg, and in Minneapolis at different times, testing the affects of some 'chemical' on the populations.
If the military has used soldiers for chemical testing then cetainly they have used large population areas, as unclassified documents have admitted.

You started off by saying "naturally it's been going on", so you're refering to spraying then? If so what do you think they are spraying. What about the co-incidence of spraying agent orange in the Vietnam war; they must have tested it before they used it to make sure it was effective.

Thank you for your response.

And here's the other person (and a female, even) with three of 'em:

Who is the administrator of this page?.. no name another Government Schill?.. after 365 days of continuous Chemtrail Spraying, i suppose no one will be able to tell between a chemtrail tainted cloud and a real cloud.. notice how he says', " i will not be taking picutres on days that ir rains".. because that would allo...w you to see what a real cloud looks like.. and why no name.. . he is paying for the add that is found on your side bar.. who is paying for that add.. The Bilderberg Group?.. wake up people..

what do you work for the CIA??????... you should only allow clouds that are real.. no chemtrails.

THis page is a Schill operative.. CIA.. to dope people up and confuse them.. they have been spraying heavily since March in the US.. and many haven't put it together.. many are getting sick and still it would never occur to them that their Government would spray them 24 / 7... as you can see not many know the diffrance ..

wake up people..

And so I replied (and with typos, even)...

Wow...another one...

It's amazing how folks go to great lengths in thier desire to live in a world filled with fear and suspicion. And the internet has been exceptionally fertile grounds for everything from UFO conspiracy, right on down to the ultra-low frequency exposure project that the "black helicopters" are supposedly conducting...

I wonder if people will ever figure out someday, that with all of these conspiracies floating around that each claim millions of casualties...why are there still people alive? Or...is that too, a conspiracy?

As I explained before, the contrails are exhaust trails from internal combustion engines, however, the space shuttle leaves a for of contrail, but that's a little bit different and doesn't apply here. There are no spraying aircraft...there's not enough money to build and supply chemicals for all the aircraft all over the world. It would take a fleet of hundreds of thousands of aircraft to fly continiously all over the globe, to reach the billions of people and cover all inhabitable areas. And then there's the ground crews, support crews and maintenance crews plus all the vendors and thier sub-contractors. You realize just how many people it takes just to keep a single commercial 747 in operation? Seriously, do the math.

Also, I suggest seeing a real aerial spraying operation sometime, to see what an actual "chemtrail" looks like...it's not nearly as exciting as the conspiracy version, but head on out to you local farmland next time they're crop-dusting. In all honesty, watching the plane's aerobatics is far more interesting. Anyway, at anything above a few hundred feet, the spray atomizes to such an extent, there isn't even a mist...that's why crop-dusters have to stay at such a low altitude, otherwise thier spraying has no effect. So obviously, unless you see a mysterious jumbo jet painted black, flying at about 250 feet off the ground, it just isn't going to work.

Human beings have been getting sick (and dying) since there were humans...this is nothing new. In victorian England for example, people were contracting Pneumonia and Emphysema from the coal smoke pollution that mixed with the fog. There weren't mysterious aircraft back then to cause it. That was simply pollution, much like we have today.

I can appreciate being passionate about something, but perhaps you folks would like to apply your efforts to something that's actually worthwhile, like helping homeless folks or feeding the hungry. Those are real world problems that need real solutions...

This could get interesting...

 

[vikingBerserker]

There you go again, using facts and logic.....sheesh.................

Obviously before aircraft, they were using coconut laden swallows to spread chem trails.

 

[GrauGeist]

Oh man, you have no idea how it's rollin' over there now!

The female is on a real roll

(And it was carrier pidgeons, not swallows...but now the pidgeons are extinct...I wonder why!!)

 

[RabidAlien]

African or European swallows? Because it makes a difference as far as what types of chemicals each type is able to carry...

 

[Njaco]

And you have to factor in wind-speed velocity!!!

I would ask them why the gubberment, whose funding comes from the people, would go to these lengths to kill or harm the very same people? Reducing your funding base has no rational answer.

 

[Crimea_River]

A wise man once told me to never argue with an idiot because after a few minutes, it becomes difficult to tell who is who.

Works for me and it seems I rarely get into an argument. Hmmm...

 

[Matt308]

What the hell are you talkin' about River, you SoB? Can you back that up with facts?

 

[Crimea_River]

Trying.......to..............ig....nore.

 

[FLYBOYJ]

Need to tell them...



1. Present an aircraft capable of covert chemical spraying

2. Present a pilot, aircrew or maintainer who worked on these aircraft

3. Show where these aircraft operate from

 

[Matt308]

Trying.......to..............ig....nore.

River I was kidding. Remember arguing with idiots... never mind. Self depricating humor never works in my favor.

 

[Crimea_River]

Matt, I know. My Homer Simpson impression didn't work either so we're even.

 

[Matt308]

Must get internet humor!

 

[Soren]