The urban legend of the "He 277" being a "cover designation". It REALLY existed!

Vahe Demirjian · Jan 30, 2020

Dan Sharp's magazine Luftwaffe Secret Bombers of the Third Reich mentions on page 15 a four-engine variant of the Heinkel He 177 called the He 179, which Ernst Heinkel saw as a backup in the event the He 177's development was plagued by its unreliable DB 606 engines. However, the RLM cancelled the He 179 on September 12, 1939 as development of the He 177 picked up pace, even though the fire-prone DB 606s would be the Achilles' heel of the He 177. This piece of info is important because the He 179 was Heinkel's first ever He 177 design with four separate engines and an RLM aircraft designations webpage lists 8-179 as allocated to Heinkel, but without providing further details. The He 179 isn't mentioned in Griehl and Dressel's book on the He 177, however.

GrauGeist · Jan 30, 2020

Nice little webpage, but their designation list is incomplete:
Gò - Gòppingen
AS - Arthur Sack
B - Akafleig Berlin
Rk - Kramer

Propellorhead · Dec 14, 2021

Njaco said:
One of my sources also stated that the 277 at Cheb was blown up by the Germans rather than an allied raid.

usually with some derogatory comments about one's intelligence!

The aircraft destroyed at Cheb was not the He277. It was an He177 B-0.

this aircraft was stkz NN+QQ (He177 V101) , an He177 B-0 variant of which existed just four prototypes, used to test Jumo 222 engines.

*He-177 V102, stkz NE+OD,(later converted to He277 stkz GA+QQ )
*He-177 V103, W.Nr.550036 stkz KM+TL,, (later converted to He277)
*He-177 V104 (converted from stkz DL+ AT)

MiTasol · Dec 14, 2021

Given the bomb craters immediately in front of it I would say a significant amount of damage was from bombing.

The Germans may have finished the job but the bombs certainly did not leave it airworthy

Snautzer01 · Dec 14, 2021

Propellorhead said:
View attachment 651532

The aircraft destroyed at Cheb was not the He277. It was an He177 B-0.

this aircraft was stkz NN+QQ (He177 V101) , an He177 B-0 variant of which existed just four prototypes, used to test Jumo 222 engines.

*He-177 V102, stkz NE+OD,(later converted to He277 stkz GA+QQ )
*He-177 V103, W.Nr.550036 stkz KM+TL,, (later converted to He277)
*He-177 V104 (converted from stkz DL+ AT)

Notice remains are laying on a compass swing

https://www.scalemates.com/nl/kits...cheibe-german-compass-swing-platform--1314187

Propellorhead · Dec 14, 2021

Vahe Demirjian said:
Dan Sharp's magazine Luftwaffe Secret Bombers of the Third Reich mentions on page 15 a four-engine variant of the Heinkel He 177 called the He 179, which Ernst Heinkel saw as a backup in the event the He 177's development was plagued by its unreliable DB 606 engines. However, the RLM cancelled the He 179 on September 12, 1939 as development of the He 177 picked up pace, even though the fire-prone DB 606s would be the Achilles' heel of the He 177. This piece of info is important because the He 179 was Heinkel's first ever He 177 design with four separate engines and an RLM aircraft designations webpage lists 8-179 as allocated to Heinkel, but without providing further details. The He 179 isn't mentioned in Griehl and Dressel's book on the He 177, however.

On 19 November 1938 whilst ordering the first prototype He-177A Reichs Luft Ministerium (RLM) suggested to Designer Ernst Heinkel that he also develop four prototypes with a conventional engine layout just in case the DB606: paired DB 603 engine concept failed. RLM designated these aircraft as the He-177B. It was proposed by RLM that four prototype He-177B aircraft should be fitted with 986hp Jumo 211 engines individually housed in their own nacelles.

The aircraft destroyed at Cheb was one of these four prototypes.

Snautzer01 · Dec 14, 2021

Propellorhead said:
On 19 November 1938 whilst ordering the first prototype He-177A Reichs Luft Ministerium (RLM) suggested to Designer Ernst Heinkel that he also develop four prototypes with a conventional engine layout just in case the DB606: paired DB 603 engine concept failed. RLM designated these aircraft as the He-177B. It was proposed by RLM that four prototype He-177B aircraft should be fitted with 986hp Jumo 211 engines individually housed in their own nacelles.

The aircraft destroyed at Cheb was one of these four prototypes.

This is different then post #63 by you ?

Propellorhead · Dec 14, 2021

MiTasol said:
Given the bomb craters immediately in front of it I would day a significant amount of damage was from bombing.

The Germans may have finished the job but the bombs certainly did not leave it airworthy

I originally understood the aircraft was destroyed by an air attack and then I was corrected by someone claiming the Germans destroyed it themselves. possibly : both claims are correct that an air attack rendered it unairworthy so it was torched to prevent capture?

Njaco · Dec 14, 2021

Could it be we may be discussing at cross purposes here? I seem to recall that I posted over 10 years ago (I think) that Heinkel was playing with the idea of a 4 engined 177 in 1938 but in order to keep hidden from RLM, called it He 177B. Later it was allowed to be given the designation He277. Sooo, could it be that while some are locked onto the "No 277, only 'B' models" in reality we are talking about the same plane but at different times of its development? He177B in 1938 and He277 in 1943? I'll hide behind the dust cloud now.

wuzak · Dec 14, 2021

Propellorhead said:
On 19 November 1938 whilst ordering the first prototype He-177A Reichs Luft Ministerium (RLM) suggested to Designer Ernst Heinkel that he also develop four prototypes with a conventional engine layout just in case the DB606: paired DB 603 engine concept failed. RLM designated these aircraft as the He-177B. It was proposed by RLM that four prototype He-177B aircraft should be fitted with 986hp Jumo 211 engines individually housed in their own nacelles.

The DB 606 was paired DB 601s.

Later He 177s got the DB 610, which was paired DB 605s.

The paired DB 603 was designated the DB 613. Not sure if any flew.

Snautzer01 · May 4, 2023

Tiberium said:
The book Heinkel He 177 – 277 – 274 by Manfred Griehl and Joachim Dressel (published in original German-language edition in 1989, published in English language edition in 1998) refutes the notion in some older books about German military aircraft of World War II that Heinkel referred to the Heinkel He 277 as He 177B to hide its existence from the RLM by making clear that the He 177B and He 277 were different aircraft, the He 177B being simply an He 177A with four individual piston engines and the He 277 being an all-new design with a wingspan of 131 feet and a nose section resembling that of the Bristol Blenheim. The book Heinkel He 177 Greif: Heinkel's Strategic Bomber by J. Richard Smith and Eddie Creek and the bookazine Luftwaffe: Secret Bombers of the Third Reich make mention of a 1939 proposal by Heinkel for an He 177 with four individual engines, the He 179, which never left the design phase.

What a coincedence you look a lot like Vahe Demirjian see post 61.

fubar57 · May 4, 2023

AHA!!!!! I knew it

The urban legend of the "He 277" being a "cover designation". It REALLY existed!

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