- Nov 22, 2009
Probably a good thing I now have Mike blocked. Terrible chain of events. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/flight-ps752-garneau-update-iran-1.5424649
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The BBC's report that the aircraft: Before it had left the airport's air space, the plane turned around and tried to return to the runway. Did give me, at least, a thought that just possibly a mechanical/electrical problem had occurred. The thought that missiles had been launched, and two at that, at a helpless commercial airline flight was difficult to comprehend and a few here speculated that it was an accidental missile launch. Buffnut also speculated that perhaps it was not deliberate. Then Zipper's "what were they going to say" post. To which I sarcastically replied "Yea and the check is in the mail" It never occurred to me that anyone could believe Iran capable of such open forthright honesty and that my comment would be taken in the manner intended. Toward ANYONE naive enough to believe the Iranians possessed such honesty.
So Chris et al, if you felt splattered by my paintbrush I would reply that: Someone can be offended without you having been offensive. Being offended is not an objective reality. There is no measuring stick of offense. Being offended is an internal response based on how a person interprets a situation. It’s highly subjective.
They justify their power by using (or creating) a terrifying external or internal threat to justify their actions.Dictatorships work like we will protect you from the bad guys.
They justify their power by using (or creating) a terrifying external or internal threat to justify their actions.
Yeah, but I wanted to avoid it becoming political so I kept it very narrow...That is not limited to dictators...
Yeah, but I wanted to avoid it becoming political so I kept it very narrow...
Chris, a picky point but the use of the word "accident" as it is used here and in so many other instances colors perception of the event. An "accident" is, by definition, unintentional. We accidentally drop dinner plates, or send e-mails before we're done writing them. The word also suggests something of the unforeseen — an event that couldn't have been anticipated, for which no one can be blamed and yet Iran is offering up Moe, Larry. and Curly.So yes they mistakenly shot it down, not deliberately. So yes it was an accident.
Chris, a picky point but the use of the word "accident" as it is used here and in so many other instances colors perception of the event. An "accident" is, by definition, unintentional. We accidentally drop dinner plates, or send e-mails before we're done writing them. The word also suggests something of the unforeseen — an event that couldn't have been anticipated, for which no one can be blamed and yet Iran is offering up Moe, Larry. and Curly.
If I stand in the middle of an interstate highway and wiggle my behind and get hit by a semi, is it an "accident". If I'm in the middle of a Duck Sanctuary with a multitude of ducks flying overhead and I shoot into the air have I "accidentally" shot a duck?
Moe, Larry, and Curly were stationed next to a commercial civilian airport. It was days after the US drone strike and hours after their retaliatory missile strike. There are several commercial civilian flights that have and are in the process of taking off. I know nothing about the type of targeting/guidance used, RADAR, IR, VISUAL, LASER, or what information the device provided to the launch crew but seriously, assuming that one dot that turns the wrong way is somehow Military with hostile intent is beyond credibility.
Accident? Probably not deliberate in the sense that the Gomers decided "Let's shoot down a passenger jet today" but "deliberate" and "intentional in the sense that someone decided to launch not one but two SAMS and some pushed a button.
Iranians have constantly referred to July 3, 1988 when the USS Vincennes shot down Iran Air flight 655 The Airbus had taken off from Bandar Abbas, Iran, heading for Dubai in the United Arab Emirates. The Airbus A300 began its ascent as normal, part of a twice-weekly route flown by the airline for over 20 years. The captain communicated with air traffic controllers in English. His last message was: "Thank you, good day."
The Vincennes meanwhile had mistaken the commercial aircraft for an Iranian F-14, despite having state-of-the-art combat equipment at the time. The U.S. says the Navy made 11 radio warning calls on different frequencies before the Vincennes fired two missiles at the airplane, bringing it down and killing all aboard. Again perhaps my lack of knowledge of combat RADAR but mistaking an Airbus for an F-14??? stretches my credulity
Chris, not, if you'll re-read my post I asked a question. Do you or anyone else for that matter know/suspect what kind/type os SAM system was used. In general I'm a bit incredulous that, much like with the Vincennes incident how do you "mistake" an Airbus for a F-14? Are these systems THAT inexact?
I'll grant that the grunt operators probably had little or no training besides "Push this button when I tell you to" but one would thing someone with more training/authority was present.
Chris, that was my first thought as well which is why that BBC "turned back toward the airport" gave some hope that it was mechanical/electric.nothing to gain from deliberately targeting a Ukrainian airliner.
Chris, that was my first thought as well which is why that BBC "turned back toward the airport" gave some hope that it was mechanical/electric.
With your close association to military aircraft I hoped that you had some insights into the operations/returns on a MIL-type RADAR. Transponders can of course be set to give any signature desired and/or turned off. I can see a big Mil-bomber giving the same or similar RADAR signature as 737-800 BUT a B-52 or other type US bomber would standout like a sore thumb at the civilian airport. Were/are they that paranoid that the could think that the US would outfit a 737 as a bomber or perhaps take a play from their own playbook and crash a fuel-laden passenger jet into their Mil-base.
In the true sense of the word "accident" I still don't buy it. Jihadists don't really spend a whole lot of time distinguishing one type of Christian from another. So I'm not promulgating a "Conspiracy" here just ignorance, hatred, and a total lack of forethought. "I killed you 176 Christians my 67 virgins are waiting"
Why?? I don't think passenger jets have RADAR warning receivers like fighter jets.hoping to make it back to a runway for landing.
As for radar signatures. Can you tell me how a B-52 would look on a screen, or how a 737 would look on a screen? Can you differentiate?