Unknown aircraft

[Snautzer01]

I have no idea...It could be russian as there is a mig3 in the background

 

[Wayne Little]

Can't help either....interesting enough though.

 

[Capt. Vick]

I'm thinking French as there is a French bomber behind it, though the Czechs also built that one under license IIRC. IMHO it looks like something a few kids made out of cardboard!

 

[buffnut453]

The aircraft to the right of the MiG 3 looks like a Farman bomber so maybe just a zoo of captured aircraft...which means it could be from anywhere. It's ugly enough to be French, though.

 

[Graeme]

Just noticed this thread.

My immediate thought was a miniature Beardmore Infexible - which has me thinking Rohrbach - maybe a variant of the Roland series?
The wingtip certainly looks similar...

The hunt continues and I've enlisted help.

 

[ScreamingLighting]

It looks like a Roland VIIIa to me. It had up-rated engines from the Roland VIII and a longer fuselage. (notice the difference between the pic Graeme posted and the unknown)

 

[GrauGeist]

While it looks very much like a Rohrbach RoVIIIa "Roland", I am troubled by the vertical stabilizer on the original photo versus the RoVIIIa.

In the original photo, the vertical stabilizer raises from the fuselage in more of a "traditional" sense (leading edge would appear to be diagonal in profile) while the VIIIa (or open cockpit VIII) leading edge raises straight up from the fuselage in a vertical ascent (appearing to be a "square" seen in profile)

 

[Graeme]

While it looks very much like a Rohrbach RoVIIIa "Roland", I am troubled by the vertical stabilizer on the original photo versus the RoVIIIa.

In the original photo, the vertical stabilizer raises from the fuselage in more of a "traditional" sense (leading edge would appear to be diagonal in profile) while the VIIIa (or open cockpit VIII) leading edge raises straight up from the fuselage in a vertical ascent (appearing to be a "square" seen in profile)

Dave, I'm wondering if there is something in the background that is interfering with the stabiliser silhouette, particularly as that is a very dark area in the photo?

On the positive side - the triangular cargo door, passenger door, windows and that cooler intake at the front all seem to match...

Cheers.

 

[GrauGeist]

Look at th cowl just ahead of the windscreen (shrouded) and notice that there isn't a radius to the cowl, as seen in your photo (post #5) and again, in the artist's rendering.

The cowling is squared off. And as far as the vertical stabilizer, it's certainly tapered, as you can see re-inforced structures (part of the hangar, perhaps) behind the aircraft, eliminating the possibility of something blocking the view of the tail structure.

There certainly seems to be something unique about this aircraft. Perhaps a prototype or a "one off" of the existing Rohrbach airframe?

 

[buffnut453]

Or it could just be something else getting in the way of the fin. It's pretty dark and blurry in that area so hard to be specific. For my money, it's a Rohrbach...you can even see the "D" of the civilian registration under the wing.

 

[Wurger]

Maybe this can help a little bit...

 

[Snautzer01]

Secret Luftwaffe German school at Lipezk Russia had a Rohrbach Ro VIII "Roland I" coded D-991 wrk nr 18 build in 1926. 1928 Rebuilt as a bomber Ro VIIIMb or Ro XII "Roka" School ran from 1926-1933 I think after the school closed they left this old crate behind.

 

[Capt. Vick]

Interesting...

 

[ScreamingLighting]

A conversion from an obsolescent model possibly? It doesn't look quite right for any model, including the VIIIa. Maybe a Roland I/II converted to VIIIa standard?

 

[Njaco]

I think Schnautzer may have it. Look at the landing gear of the SE fighter to the right of the pic. Looks like a placard on the landing gear like a museum or something similar.

 

[nuuumannn]

I can tell you exactly where the image was taken. It's outside the Deutches Luftfahrt Sammlung in the centre of Berlin. Take a look at this picture I took of a model at the Deutches Technic Museum of the old Berlin museum. At left is the stairs the guys are standing on, with the trimotor at top centre, the French bomber (Bloch MB-200) to its left and the MiG in front of them both.

Here's another view of the same model;

http://forum.ioh.pl/graficzki2/1307672632_124.jpg

According to lists of the aircraft at the museum, it is Rohrbach Rolland II D-1720/D-AHOL 'Niederwald':

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Luftfahrtsammlung_Berlin

http://forum.ioh.pl/graficzki2/1320724452_tf0004a.jpg

Here's a pic from a forum showing the same view from a different angle, with the Bloch at centre, the MiG just visible in front and the Roland at left with its left wing and engine nacelle only visible.

http://forum.ioh.pl/graficzki2/1320899855_a2.jpg

From here:

http://forum.ioh.pl/viewtopic.php?t=19897

 

[Snautzer01]

Nice detective work. But is the diorama wrong in the direction the Bloch and the Rohrbach are pointing? Should the be parallel?

 

[nuuumannn]

Take a look at the photo again, Snautzer, you can see that the Bloch is at a different angle to the Rohrbach.

 

[Njaco]

Excellent stuff Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuman!

 

[Airframes]

Is that a Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuman, as in Gary Nuuman !?
Gave him a lift down a bumpy runway once, so he could see where he'd get airborne in his Harvard for a display. He commented on my driving (in a Toyota Land Cruiser, at speed, on a grass strip!), so I commented on his music - nuff said !!