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Please, in no way was I disparaging that fine site or Mike Williams. At all. Just wondering where those figures had been for the last 65 years. Maybe they have the only copy.
Ah, I get you. Sorry for the inference. In terms of releasing old material like this I think the bottleneck is more at the very small numbers of people organizing and labeling the material for release. There's mountains of stuff and often it's just archive/museum volunteers going through it and indexing it properly for us to eventually find.
That would be the second bottleneck; one of us eventually coming across it. Sometimes made all the more difficult by mislabeling or typo errors.
Makes sense, thanks for your help.Ah, I get you. Sorry for the inference. In terms of releasing old material like this I think the bottleneck is more at the very small numbers of people organizing and labeling the material for release. There's mountains of stuff and often it's just archive/museum volunteers going through it and indexing it properly for us to eventually find.
That would be the second bottleneck; one of us eventually coming across it. Sometimes made all the more difficult by mislabeling or typo errors.
I have said this before, but, in my line of work I have met many German pilots who to a man walked by a hangar full of mustangs and stopped in front of the P-47 and said "I Hate these things. I got shot down by one of these." The Mustang has the range by far ,so it's up in the air as to which is the better fighter. I believe we needed both to achieve the bomber escort missions successfully.
By and large Allied pilots were the least likely to shoot a downed airman in the silk.I wonder if -- among its many laudable allocates -- the Mustang can claim the lurid honour of gunning the most chutes in WWII.
I know that Spitfire XIVs could carry their drop tanks into combat, did the P51s do so as well?
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Of course I don't have nearly the knowledge on the subject as some of you here so any miscalculations which may exist in the video would most certainly go unnoticed by me. ENJOY!
How do you feel about his belief that the 8th AF mislead the higher ups about the need for escort?Unfortunately, there are some important miscalculations in the video. The 1st is that Greg mixes the 200 gal 'cow udder', slipper ferry tank with a 'drop tank of 200 gals'. The only 200 gal drop tank, besides what was produced by Ford of Australia, was that ferry tank. It could not be pressurized - a major problem if one intends to use it at high altitudes, where it was needed.
He also states several times that 2300 HP, achieved via water injection, was available in mid 1943 - not the case, the 1st WI kits were in use by December of 1943 (January 1944?) in the ETO. The power levels used in 1943 for radius calculations were 5 min military power, 15 min max continuous.
There was no P-47B in ETO service, unlike it was mentioned in video (~33 min mark).
How do you feel about his belief that the 8th AF mislead the higher ups about the need for escort?
The 1st is that Greg mixes the 200 gal 'cow udder', slipper ferry tank with a 'drop tank of 200 gals'. The only 200 gal drop tank, besides what was produced by Ford of Australia, was that ferry tank. It could not be pressurized - a major problem if one intends to use it at high altitudes, where it was needed.
The "official" range charts from September 1943 he was relying on (10:20 mark in video) looked similar to those presented by Reluctant Poster earlier in this thread. Are those then the most accurate regarding range determinations for escort duty? He thoroughly bashed the more commonly found range charts as overly optimistic and people here on the forum tend to agree. If they are indeed correct then the P-47D with 305 gallons of internal fuel and 108 gallon belly tank had a maximum escort radius of about 300 miles.
A big point that he was trying to make throughout the video is that even though the the P-51 was statically the superior escort fighter of the two (greater range while using far less fuel), the P-47D could be relied upon for escort duty too as it still had ample range (which steadily evolved by increasing internal fuel and mounting larger/more external tanks), thus it was an excellent alternative to the Mustang right up to the EOW.
The manufacturers (Allison & PW) increased the combat power limit from 5 minutes to 15 minutes in mid-1942.
I really enjoyed watching this recent video posted on Greg's Airplanes and Automobiles, as it really gets down to the nuts and bolts concerning the Thunderbolt's range performance. I want to know what all of you think of his revelations.
I have a ton of respect for this guy and want to make clear up front that it's not my intention to find fault with his calculations. From my perspective he covers things pretty effectively and uses sound reasoning when coming up with his statistics.
Of course I don't have nearly the knowledge on the subject as some of you here so any miscalculations which may exist in the video would most certainly go unnoticed by me. ENJOY!
Yes, each specific engine flight chart for each engine is dated and some have revisions and revised dates. The figures for each chart may have been revised later.The manual for the P-47B, C, D and G, dated January 20th 1943, notes 5 min limit for military power.
Let's recall that power settings used during the best part of 1943 were lower than what was used once WI kits were introduced, and R-2800s were allowed for 15min for military power vs. just 5 min in 1943. Lower power settings = better mileage. So IMO the 375 mile radius for 305+110 gals was probably true for 1943, while it might not be true in 1944.
A big point that he was trying to make throughout the video is that even though the the P-51 was statically the superior escort fighter of the two (greater range while using far less fuel), the P-47D could be relied upon for escort duty too as it still had ample range (which steadily evolved by increasing internal fuel and mounting larger/more external tanks), thus it was an excellent alternative to the Mustang right up to the EOW.