Ways to sink a Cruiser
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Erich
the old Sage
KK yes friend David Krakow wrote the first volume of the Signal S-booten book, and I am working with him on the English history of the S-boot arm which will fill the volume 2 later on...........with ops and award winners, etc.
E ~
E ~
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
yes mate your bridge can't fly 
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
A Tallboy took out that Viaduct......
Le Batistador
Recruit
Oy Trackend, mate...
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A
Anonymous
Guest
The simple answer to ways to sink a cruiser is: The same as any other ship, you let the water in. So the question then is what's the best way to do that? Well, in the USN the phrase is, when disposing of enemy ships: "It is better to poke holes that let water in than to poke holes that let air in."
Here are lists of 19 heavy cruisers and 22 light cruisers lost by the Japanese during World War II.
As far as CAs are concerned, the big killers were USN carrier aircraft (58%). An additional 16% were sunk by some combination of naval gunfire and carrier aircraft. 21% were lost to submarines and the remaining 5% (one ship) went to naval gunfire alone.
Cruisers: Format = Ship Name; date sunk; source of loss; approx. location
MIKUMA; 6/6/1942; Carrier Air; Midway
KINUGASA; 11/14/1942; Carrier Air; off Savo Is., Solomons
CHOKAI; 10/25/1944; Carrier Air; E Samar, PI
SUZUYA; 10/25/1944; Carrier Air; E Samar, PI
NACHI; 11/5/1944; Carrier Air; Manila Bay. PI
KUMANO; 11/25/1944; Carrier Air; W Luzon, PI
KASUGA (OLD HEAVY CRUISER); 7/18/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
TONE; 7/24/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
AOBA; 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
IWATE (OLD HEAVY CRUISER); 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
IZUMO (OLD HEAVY CRUISER); 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
CHIKUMA; 10/25/1944; Carrier Air, Naval Gunfire; E Samar, PI
HAGURO; 5/16/1945; Carrier Air, Naval Gunfire; off Penang, Borneo
FURUTAKA; 10/11/1942; Naval Gunfire; off Savo Is., Solomons
MOGAMI; 10/25/1944; Naval Gunfire, Carrier Air; Mindinao Sea, PI
KAKO; 8/10/1942; Submarine Attack; off New Ireland, Solomons
ATAGO; 10/23/1944; Submarine Attack; off Palawan, PI
MAYA; 10/23/1944; Submarine Attack; off Palawan, PI
ASHIGARA; 6/8/1945; Submarine Attack-RN; SE Singapore
Of the CL's, 9 (41%) were lost to carrier aircraft, and a like number were lost to submarines. Of the remaining, two were lost due the naval gunfire (9%) , 1 to a combination of naval gunfire and carrier air ( 4.5%) and 1 to a combination of naval gunfire and land-based air.
Light Cruisers: Format = Ship Name; date sunk; source of loss; approx. location
YURA; 10/25/1942; Carrier Air; Santa Isabel, Solomons
TENRYU; 12/18/1942; Carrier Air; Bismark Sea
NAKA; 2/17/1944; Carrier Air; SW Truk
KINU; 10/26/1944; Carrier Air; SW Masbate, PI
NOSHIRO; 10/26/1944; Carrier Air; NW Panay, PI
KISO; 11/13/1944; Carrier Air; Manila Bay. PI
KASHII; 1/12/1945; Carrier Air; South China Sea
YAHAGI; 4/7/1945; Carrier Air; off Kyushu
OYODO; 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
KATORI; 2/17/1944; Carrier Air, Naval Gunfire; Truk
JINTSU; 7/13/1943; Naval Gunfire; N Kolombangara, Solomons
SENDAI; 11/2/1943; Naval Gunfire; Off Bougainville, Solomons
ABUKUMA; 10/26/1944; Naval Gunfire, Land Air; off Negros, PI
KUMA; 1/11/1944; Submarine Attack; off Penang, Borneo
AGANO; 2/16/1944; Submarine Attack; N Truk
TATSUTA; 3/13/1944; Submarine Attack; S Yokohoma
YUBARI; 4/27/1944; Submarine Attack; S PaLand Airu
OI; 7/19/1944; Submarine Attack; South China Sea
NAGARA; 8/7/1944; Submarine Attack; W Kyushu
NATORI; 8/18/1944; Submarine Attack; E Samar, PI
TAMA; 10/25/1944; Submarine Attack; NE Luzon, PI
ISUZU; 4/7/1945; Submarine Attack; N Soembawa, NEI
Overall, the biggest killer, at 49%, of Japanese cruisers, heavy and light, was carrier aircraft (58% if you count the ones with carrier air and naval gunfire together) followed by submarines (32%). Addmittedly I haven't gone back to look up each of these losses, but at a quick glance I'd venture that the majority of those sunk by carrier air were sunk using bombs instead of torpedoes. Seems like that was enough to :let the water in".
Regards,
Rich
Here are lists of 19 heavy cruisers and 22 light cruisers lost by the Japanese during World War II.
As far as CAs are concerned, the big killers were USN carrier aircraft (58%). An additional 16% were sunk by some combination of naval gunfire and carrier aircraft. 21% were lost to submarines and the remaining 5% (one ship) went to naval gunfire alone.
Cruisers: Format = Ship Name; date sunk; source of loss; approx. location
MIKUMA; 6/6/1942; Carrier Air; Midway
KINUGASA; 11/14/1942; Carrier Air; off Savo Is., Solomons
CHOKAI; 10/25/1944; Carrier Air; E Samar, PI
SUZUYA; 10/25/1944; Carrier Air; E Samar, PI
NACHI; 11/5/1944; Carrier Air; Manila Bay. PI
KUMANO; 11/25/1944; Carrier Air; W Luzon, PI
KASUGA (OLD HEAVY CRUISER); 7/18/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
TONE; 7/24/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
AOBA; 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
IWATE (OLD HEAVY CRUISER); 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
IZUMO (OLD HEAVY CRUISER); 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
CHIKUMA; 10/25/1944; Carrier Air, Naval Gunfire; E Samar, PI
HAGURO; 5/16/1945; Carrier Air, Naval Gunfire; off Penang, Borneo
FURUTAKA; 10/11/1942; Naval Gunfire; off Savo Is., Solomons
MOGAMI; 10/25/1944; Naval Gunfire, Carrier Air; Mindinao Sea, PI
KAKO; 8/10/1942; Submarine Attack; off New Ireland, Solomons
ATAGO; 10/23/1944; Submarine Attack; off Palawan, PI
MAYA; 10/23/1944; Submarine Attack; off Palawan, PI
ASHIGARA; 6/8/1945; Submarine Attack-RN; SE Singapore
Of the CL's, 9 (41%) were lost to carrier aircraft, and a like number were lost to submarines. Of the remaining, two were lost due the naval gunfire (9%) , 1 to a combination of naval gunfire and carrier air ( 4.5%) and 1 to a combination of naval gunfire and land-based air.
Light Cruisers: Format = Ship Name; date sunk; source of loss; approx. location
YURA; 10/25/1942; Carrier Air; Santa Isabel, Solomons
TENRYU; 12/18/1942; Carrier Air; Bismark Sea
NAKA; 2/17/1944; Carrier Air; SW Truk
KINU; 10/26/1944; Carrier Air; SW Masbate, PI
NOSHIRO; 10/26/1944; Carrier Air; NW Panay, PI
KISO; 11/13/1944; Carrier Air; Manila Bay. PI
KASHII; 1/12/1945; Carrier Air; South China Sea
YAHAGI; 4/7/1945; Carrier Air; off Kyushu
OYODO; 7/28/1945; Carrier Air; Kure NB
KATORI; 2/17/1944; Carrier Air, Naval Gunfire; Truk
JINTSU; 7/13/1943; Naval Gunfire; N Kolombangara, Solomons
SENDAI; 11/2/1943; Naval Gunfire; Off Bougainville, Solomons
ABUKUMA; 10/26/1944; Naval Gunfire, Land Air; off Negros, PI
KUMA; 1/11/1944; Submarine Attack; off Penang, Borneo
AGANO; 2/16/1944; Submarine Attack; N Truk
TATSUTA; 3/13/1944; Submarine Attack; S Yokohoma
YUBARI; 4/27/1944; Submarine Attack; S PaLand Airu
OI; 7/19/1944; Submarine Attack; South China Sea
NAGARA; 8/7/1944; Submarine Attack; W Kyushu
NATORI; 8/18/1944; Submarine Attack; E Samar, PI
TAMA; 10/25/1944; Submarine Attack; NE Luzon, PI
ISUZU; 4/7/1945; Submarine Attack; N Soembawa, NEI
Overall, the biggest killer, at 49%, of Japanese cruisers, heavy and light, was carrier aircraft (58% if you count the ones with carrier air and naval gunfire together) followed by submarines (32%). Addmittedly I haven't gone back to look up each of these losses, but at a quick glance I'd venture that the majority of those sunk by carrier air were sunk using bombs instead of torpedoes. Seems like that was enough to :let the water in".
Regards,
Rich
lesofprimus
Brigadier General
Great Info Rich.. You should join up and become a member and share some of that OTHER info u got....
trackend
Chief Master Sergeant
here! here! quite right Les go for it Rich
By the way thanks LB these PC things confuse old sods like me.
By the way thanks LB these PC things confuse old sods like me.
One of the most stuipid ways to sink a Cruiser, is a Cruiser that tries to Sink itself.
On the 13th May 1942 HMS Trinidad which was Escorting Convoy PQ13, and was involved in a running battle with several German Destroyers, she was repeatedly hitting the German Destroyer Z26, which was severly damaged, and subsequerntly fired a torpedo at Z26, which due to the severe weather conditions did a 180 degree turn, and hit HMS Trinidad somewhere amidships. She got to Murmansk under her own steam where she spent until 15th May, the ships company repairing damage to make her fit for the voyage home, with the assistance of the Russians. On the way back to Britain in convoy with 2 damaged Destroyers HMS Foresight Forrester and the 2 Destroyers HMS Matchless Somali , and the surviving Members of HMS Ediburgh's ships company onboard, the British Ships were set upon by a mixed bag of Junkers JU88, and Stuka Dive Bombers, these carried out attacks on HMS Trinidad for almost 2 hours, with the Cruiser manageing to dodge the bombs, but torpedo laden HE111's aproached, the Cruiser managed to avoid all the torpedo's launched at her, but while avoiding the last lot of torpedo's, she was hit by several bombs from a Junkers which came in uunoticed at mast height, the Captain was still trying to control the ship at this point, but the fires got out of hand, and he ordered abandon ship. HMS Trinidad was scuttled shortly after all the surviving ships company was evacuated, along with those from HMS Edinburgh.
On the 13th May 1942 HMS Trinidad which was Escorting Convoy PQ13, and was involved in a running battle with several German Destroyers, she was repeatedly hitting the German Destroyer Z26, which was severly damaged, and subsequerntly fired a torpedo at Z26, which due to the severe weather conditions did a 180 degree turn, and hit HMS Trinidad somewhere amidships. She got to Murmansk under her own steam where she spent until 15th May, the ships company repairing damage to make her fit for the voyage home, with the assistance of the Russians. On the way back to Britain in convoy with 2 damaged Destroyers HMS Foresight Forrester and the 2 Destroyers HMS Matchless Somali , and the surviving Members of HMS Ediburgh's ships company onboard, the British Ships were set upon by a mixed bag of Junkers JU88, and Stuka Dive Bombers, these carried out attacks on HMS Trinidad for almost 2 hours, with the Cruiser manageing to dodge the bombs, but torpedo laden HE111's aproached, the Cruiser managed to avoid all the torpedo's launched at her, but while avoiding the last lot of torpedo's, she was hit by several bombs from a Junkers which came in uunoticed at mast height, the Captain was still trying to control the ship at this point, but the fires got out of hand, and he ordered abandon ship. HMS Trinidad was scuttled shortly after all the surviving ships company was evacuated, along with those from HMS Edinburgh.
hellothere
Banned
- 10
- Jul 21, 2006
Id say a fun way to sink a ship would be to send a couple of guys on board to but demolition charges on the engines
hellothere
Banned
- 10
- Jul 21, 2006
Theres an idea, and im sure ive heard of that before
stug3
Staff Sergeant
HMS Edinburgh, sunk after being torpedoed in the Barents Sea, April 1942
Ahoy - Mac's Web Log - The Golden Cruiser. HMS Edinburgh sunk in WW2, carrying 5 tons of* Russian gold with her
HMS Edinburgh was torpedoed on April 30, 1942 while carrying Russian gold valued at 45 Million Pounds Sterling destined for the United States Treasury, being part payment for all the munitions and materiel despatched to Russia from America. The Edinburgh was attacked several times in the next few days by the KM LW, finally sinking on May 2. It fought back effectively helping to sink the KM Destroyer Hermann Schoemann. The gold was recovered in 1981.
The light cruiser HMS Edinburgh had lost most of her stern in a torpedo attack on the 30th April. She was being towed back to Murmansk when German destroyers attacked.
HMS FORESIGHT taken in tow by the damaged cruiser Edinburgh
The German destroyer Hermann Schoemann sunk by HMS Edinburgh and other ships of Convoy QP11 in her last battle.
Ahoy - Mac's Web Log - The Golden Cruiser. HMS Edinburgh sunk in WW2, carrying 5 tons of* Russian gold with her
HMS Edinburgh was torpedoed on April 30, 1942 while carrying Russian gold valued at 45 Million Pounds Sterling destined for the United States Treasury, being part payment for all the munitions and materiel despatched to Russia from America. The Edinburgh was attacked several times in the next few days by the KM LW, finally sinking on May 2. It fought back effectively helping to sink the KM Destroyer Hermann Schoemann. The gold was recovered in 1981.
The light cruiser HMS Edinburgh had lost most of her stern in a torpedo attack on the 30th April. She was being towed back to Murmansk when German destroyers attacked.
HMS FORESIGHT taken in tow by the damaged cruiser Edinburgh
The German destroyer Hermann Schoemann sunk by HMS Edinburgh and other ships of Convoy QP11 in her last battle.
yulzari
Staff Sergeant
The Royal Navy found that Mk8 torpedoes were able to sink the ex USS Pheonix. Seems appropriate. WW2 torpedoes for a WW2 cruiser. Sad that it was necessary but it was.
stug3
Staff Sergeant
From HMS Trinidad - the story of her sinking, May 1942
There were many hazards on the Arctic Convoys but HMS Trinidad was unluckier than most. In a clash with German destroyers in March she had been struck by one of her own torpedoes. Possibly due to the extreme cold the torpedo had developed a gyro problem which caused it run in a wide circular pattern. Its return hit had killed 32 men. After receiving repairs in the Russian shipyard at Murmansk she was now returning with convoy QP11.
John Govey had had to abandon ship on the out bound convoy PQ15 when his ship was torpedoed. Now he was returning with a mixed bunch of other survivors on HMS Matchless. This was one of the destroyers escorting HMS Trinidad back to Britain from Murmansk. On board she had a number of the survivors from HMS Edinburgh.
HMS Trinidad had only been patched up in Murmansk and was making about 20 knots. She proved to be a ready target for the German bombers and torpedo planes as they rounded the North Cape:
We hadn't been under way very long before the fun began and we were banging away at Junker 88s, it seemed for ages and ages.
The skipper of Matchless was another cool sort, he had four signalmen covering the ship, spotting bombs in the air. As soon as a cluster looked as though they were coming in our direction we altered course. That's where I proved the theory, "You don't hear the one which hits you". You see the bombs falling; when they are near, you lose sight of them, they hit the water, you hear the whine of their descent, followed by the noise of the explosion. It's a most peculiar feeling and not very good for the morale.
At one time when we were bomb-dodging I spotted torpedo bombers dropping torpedos a couple of miles away. I kept a good eye in that direction and duly reported "TORPEDO TRACKS". Leaving the torpedoes to look after themselves, the skipper calmly assessed the situation, turned to port and the menaces passed us on either side.
Then disaster struck. At the end of a heavy bombing raid the Trinidad was hit with a bomb which penetrated to the recreation area where a crowd of survivors were sheltering and exploded with devastating effect. The explosion started the temporary patch which had been put in at Murmansk, together with a fire which they were unable to contain so the Admiral ordered the destroyers to take off the wounded and survivors.
Each destroyer went alongside in turn and took their allotted numbers on board. Then we were ordered to sink her with torpedoes. We fired two fish into her and she sank, slowly and gracefully, bow first.
Then on with the action, west of Bear Island we were joined by the covering forces of heavy cruisers, Nigeria, Kent, Norfolk and Liverpool. Were we glad to see them. The barrage they put up when attacked was terrific and they even fired their 8-inch guns to join the barrage. Gerry lost heart after a day of it and the journey to Glasgow thereafter was a piece of cake.
Sixty-three men were lost when the bomb hit HMS Trindad including twenty survivors from HMS Edinburgh which had been sunk two weeks earlier.
HMS Trinidad under way in 1941
Fiji class cruiser HMS TRINIDAD stationary in Hvalfjörður, Iceland, February 1942, before she departed for her final voyage, escorting an arctic convoy.
The escorting destroyer HMS Matchless which took off survivors and then torpedoed HMS Trinidad.
There were many hazards on the Arctic Convoys but HMS Trinidad was unluckier than most. In a clash with German destroyers in March she had been struck by one of her own torpedoes. Possibly due to the extreme cold the torpedo had developed a gyro problem which caused it run in a wide circular pattern. Its return hit had killed 32 men. After receiving repairs in the Russian shipyard at Murmansk she was now returning with convoy QP11.
John Govey had had to abandon ship on the out bound convoy PQ15 when his ship was torpedoed. Now he was returning with a mixed bunch of other survivors on HMS Matchless. This was one of the destroyers escorting HMS Trinidad back to Britain from Murmansk. On board she had a number of the survivors from HMS Edinburgh.
HMS Trinidad had only been patched up in Murmansk and was making about 20 knots. She proved to be a ready target for the German bombers and torpedo planes as they rounded the North Cape:
We hadn't been under way very long before the fun began and we were banging away at Junker 88s, it seemed for ages and ages.
The skipper of Matchless was another cool sort, he had four signalmen covering the ship, spotting bombs in the air. As soon as a cluster looked as though they were coming in our direction we altered course. That's where I proved the theory, "You don't hear the one which hits you". You see the bombs falling; when they are near, you lose sight of them, they hit the water, you hear the whine of their descent, followed by the noise of the explosion. It's a most peculiar feeling and not very good for the morale.
At one time when we were bomb-dodging I spotted torpedo bombers dropping torpedos a couple of miles away. I kept a good eye in that direction and duly reported "TORPEDO TRACKS". Leaving the torpedoes to look after themselves, the skipper calmly assessed the situation, turned to port and the menaces passed us on either side.
Then disaster struck. At the end of a heavy bombing raid the Trinidad was hit with a bomb which penetrated to the recreation area where a crowd of survivors were sheltering and exploded with devastating effect. The explosion started the temporary patch which had been put in at Murmansk, together with a fire which they were unable to contain so the Admiral ordered the destroyers to take off the wounded and survivors.
Each destroyer went alongside in turn and took their allotted numbers on board. Then we were ordered to sink her with torpedoes. We fired two fish into her and she sank, slowly and gracefully, bow first.
Then on with the action, west of Bear Island we were joined by the covering forces of heavy cruisers, Nigeria, Kent, Norfolk and Liverpool. Were we glad to see them. The barrage they put up when attacked was terrific and they even fired their 8-inch guns to join the barrage. Gerry lost heart after a day of it and the journey to Glasgow thereafter was a piece of cake.
Sixty-three men were lost when the bomb hit HMS Trindad including twenty survivors from HMS Edinburgh which had been sunk two weeks earlier.
HMS Trinidad under way in 1941
Fiji class cruiser HMS TRINIDAD stationary in Hvalfjörður, Iceland, February 1942, before she departed for her final voyage, escorting an arctic convoy.
The escorting destroyer HMS Matchless which took off survivors and then torpedoed HMS Trinidad.
Glider
Captain
Can I add a small part to the Story of the Edinburgh. IN the early 80's I worked as an assisstant underwriter in the Underwriting room at Lloyds of London and we helped insure the recovery of the gold. In London there is the Belfast which as you know is the sister ship of the Edinburgh. The salvage team came to London and spent many days going down into the depths of the Belfast trying to understand her layout and plan the recovery.
I had served on HMS Tiger in the early 70's and was able to blag my way on board the Belfast with the salvage team. One of the best couple of working weeks I can remember.
I had served on HMS Tiger in the early 70's and was able to blag my way on board the Belfast with the salvage team. One of the best couple of working weeks I can remember.
stug3
Staff Sergeant
Wow Glider, that's awesome!
oldcrowcv63
Tech Sergeant
Methinks we knows this fellow, who be of long and informative acquaintance on this forum. But I'll not blow his cover. Thanks for the data Rich.
cherry blossom
Senior Airman
- 513
- Apr 23, 2007
May I offer the correction that the effects of destroyer carried torpedoes has been underestimated. Haguro was sunk by HMS Saumarez, Verulam, Venus, Vigilant, and Virago. They did hit her with their guns but the six (?) torpedo hits were more important. Haguro had been attacked by aircraft the day before but had not suffered serious damage. Furutaka also was hit by a torpedo from DD Buchanan as well as by many shells. Some of the cruisers sunk off Samar may also have been hit by DD or even DE carried torpedoes. The collision between Niachi and Mogami did not help either ship. Yura was uniquely hit by B-17s as well as the SBDs.
Njaco
The Pop-Tart Whisperer
Rich is not who you think he is.
