What if Italy is allied with Central Powers?

[Vincenzo]

If Italy join to central power this would be enough to change the outcome of WW I?
Put that Italy join to CP after the ottoman empire.

 

[Aurum]

If Italy join to central power this would be enough to change the outcome of WW I?
Put that Italy join to CP after the ottoman empire.

It seems to me that France could invade Italy in 1915 or at least its northern part so it would be depart from A-H and might come out of war.

 

[Vincenzo]

I don't think so, the french are already very busy in the western front, plus the Alps campaign with ww I technology is not a easy work .

rather each units sent to Alps front is one less in the western front
and one more that remain in Africa for invade italian colonies is one less again in the western front

 

[The Basket]

Why would Italy join the central powers?
They had fought the Turks in Libya and desires the Adriatic islands and other AustroHungarian land bits.
Italian strategy and tactics were against the central powers not for them.

 

[Vincenzo]

For Nizza, Savoia, Corsica, Tunisia, east Algeria, british and french Somalia, british yemen, North kenya and so

 

[swampyankee]

Italy's government negotiated what it thought the best deal from the Entente; the Central Powers didn't give them as good a deal. Italy was in a different position, as it had fairly poor feelings towards Austria-Hungary, due to decades of not terribly gentle occupation, but better feelings towards Germany, because of its help during the Risorgimento.

 

[The Basket]

Nice and Savoy were handed over as a prize to the French for support against Austria.
Mussolini thought Austria Hungry was the enemy.

Italy picked right and got rewarded.

 

[Vincenzo]

Mussolini was on pay book of british, and was a relatively minor actor in 1914.

 

[swampyankee]

France was unhelpful during the Risorgimento, but Austria was the enemy, in the same way as the USSR was to Czechoslovakia post-WW2, including secret police, informants, and summary imprisonment and even execution.

 

[The Basket]

If you have a view then please express.

 

[swampyankee]

If you have a view then please express.

If you're referring to me, the point is that most Italians held more negative feelings toward Austria than either France or Britain; an offer from the Central Powers would have needed to have been much better than one from the Entente.

The war would have gone much worse for the Entente, as control of the Mediterranean would be much more difficult for the RN to maintain and Austria would have been under less military pressure.

 

[The Basket]

I was talking about Vincenzo.
If he wants to discuss italy in ww1 then he must express his opinion more.
So we can debate.
Italy was a very minor power so Empire building was not realized and its role in ww1 was keeping Austrian forces tied to the Isonzo.

 

[Vincenzo]

I've started this not for a generic discussion of Italy in WW 1 or because she join/would join to Entente or to the Triplice but for discussion on what would happened if Italy joined to Central Powers.
The french force keeping on the Alpes would have caused heavy change on the western front?
atm i'm studying the situation, the french have 4 reserve division, 1 regular division and a territorial division (historically this was not ready to combat for all the summer and the fall of 1914), they have also the fortifications and minor territorial units, the fortification were much less extensive of that i thought.
Historically the 5 operational division were moved to western front and all were fightning the germans to the late august.

 

[The Basket]

I am of the opinion that Italy should have stayed neutral and sold guns.
Although selling the Glisenti would be interesting.
Just coz u have imperialism ambition don't mean you should.

 

[parsifal]

Italy's main issue was its enmity with Austria-Hungary, Germany's main ally. That made Italy the "odd man out" in the so-called Triple Alliance with the other two.

Italy had joined (reluctantly) with Germany out of a fear of France. This occurred when France and Britain concluded an alliance that made Britain responsible for the mutual defense of the English Channel, and freed the French fleet to concentrate in the Mediterranean, possibly against Italy.

When World War I broke out, Italy found that it had nothing to fear from France (or Britain, or Russia for that matter). On the other hand, it would have a lot to fear from a victorious Austria Hungary, from which she had taken Lombardy and Venice in the 19th century (the former when allied with France). So when Britain and France offered Italy Tyrol and Trieste from Austria, Italy jumped at the bait and switched sides.

For Italy to realistically have remained in the triple alliance, she would have needed to have acceded to Austrian demands, which were essentially a handover of Lombardy and Venice back to Austria. Essentially the Austrians had nothing to offer the Italians that compared to the carve up the allies were able to offer .

For the Italians to have been induced to join or remain with the central powers, the Italians would have needed to cede large amounts of her territory, accept total domination by Austria, accept economic ruin from the blockade, the loss of most, if not all her overseas territories, and probable starvation.

Italy would most likely have faced internal collapse and surrender by the end of 19154, possibly 1916 at the latest. Only small contingents of troops would have been needed to hold in the French alps, and tuisia due to the terrain, though the Italians proved very adept at warfare in the mountains.

Its a matter of opinion, but I think the allied forces sent to Gallipoli would have been diverted to the conquest of the Italian colonies had this situation have arisen. in early 1915 there were 84000 allied troops reserved for the assault on the dardanelles, and a further 45000 were earmarked for the ill-fated offensive into mesoptamia. These figures do not include the defensive garrison troops that were called upon to defend the allied bases after the collapse of these offensives.

A further 480000 allied troops were added to the TO during 1915, and a further 200000 in 1916. These troops were essentially held back, in training for nearly three years until mid 1917 after the collapse of the early campaigns. Its a matter of opinion, but I cannot see the Italians being able to resist in places like Libya, Sardinia and even sicily for long under the strain of a near total blockade and outnumbered this badly. I seriously doubt this TO would degenerate in the same way as the western front did.

Neither can i see much help developing from the other central powers.

 

[The Basket]

What would be Italian invasion goals against France and how would they strike against the British Empire?

 

[Vincenzo]

the goal would be divert enough french soldiers so that the germans can broke the front and take Paris;
British empire side limited operations defence in the east africa colonies, on the occasion raid in Egypt, Mediterranean sea block the east mediteranean, with the others triplice navies, to entente navies.

 

[parsifal]

It would be highly unlikely that this would eventuate. And even less likely that any Allied troops at all would be diverted from the western front. The main force used in the Mediterranean included a force known as the corps D'Expetionaire d' Orient. Initially one division was used in the initial assault in Turkey , a second division, both dating in terms of formation from before 1914, was added from 28 april. but there would eventually be about 6 divisions, mostly French foreign legion Troops and Senegalese colonial troops. These troops represented about 12% of the available forces in the Med, and could be expected to divert to the Alpine front in the event of an Italian attack.

There were massive threats to the Italian overseas interests posed by the forces being concentrated in preparation for the attack against the Dardanelles. The effects of blockade would be likely to heavily destabilise the Italian state, and massive forces would be needed to defend against Allied incursions against the Italian southern flanks

For Italy to have been induced to join the central powers, a significant financial, political, economic and military assistance package would have been required from the central powers, and this burden would almost certainly have come at the cost of a reduced, or non-existent effort to win over Bulgaria and the Ottomans. The transfer of the battlecruiser Goeben and the cruiser Breslau, for example, would probably not have occurred, as these ships almost certainly would have been used to assist the Austrians and/or the Italians in the defence of the adriatic. The massive amounts of assistance offered to Bulgaria to induce them to enter the war against the allies would have been reduced, or not offered at all, and this would almost certainly have kept Serbia in the battle for longer, with increasing Greek help, and the Bulgarians out for longer. the French and british support offered to Greece after Bulgarian entry, amounting to over 160000 troops, would not have been immediately required. These could have been redeployed either to defend the southern front of France, or used offensively against the Italian colonies

Italian adventuring with the central powers was never going to get anywhere. they were essentially a 2nd line nation at the time, highly vulnerable to blockade and invasion

 

[The Basket]

the goal would be divert enough french soldiers so that the germans can broke the front and take Paris;
British empire side limited operations defence in the east africa colonies, on the occasion raid in Egypt, Mediterranean sea block the east mediteranean, with the others triplice navies, to entente navies.

That is a no from me. I honestly cannot see any of those scenario playing out.
Italy was not a military power and had a weak industirail base with a poor track record of military operations.

 

[Vincenzo]

Probably you've limited knowledge, italy was in the top ten military power at time, weak industrial base sure but few countries were in better conditions.
the alone war loss from Italy before of WW I was the first italo ethiopian war
List of wars involving Italy - Wikipedia
it's true that we wins the 1866 war only thanks to prussians, but this is over 40 before.