What If: Napoleon Victorious

[NapoleonGuy]

Napoleon could never be victorious (more than he had been). Simply put, Britain would never accept peace with him. Nor would Austria.

First: Britian relied on Continental balances of power for economic supremacy and for military reasons. European unity under Bonaparte or a strong France with a heavily weakened Austria ruined the balance they relied on.
Second: Many consider Russia to be the loss of Napoleon rather than the victory of Russia. Many people place way too much on the winter and not enough on Russian preparations before the outbreak of war.
Third: Russia would also never accept Napoleon due to their serf system. The intense pressure placed on Alexander by his noble class meant the empty handshake between Napoleon and Alexander would never have held up. Russian nobles were too worried that enlightened ideals would drip into Russia

Part of Napoleon's problems was that the best parts of his army had largely died in the Russian Campaign. He himself was broken by that heart-breaking loss. Therefore, a big problem is what would have happened if Napoleon had been in form, could he have won Waterloo? Maybe not, because he still would have been dealing with inexperienced troops, against experienced British troop numbers.

I don't know if that is entirely true. I would argue the best parts of the army were either maimed, destroyed, or tied down by the Spanish campaign.

 

[Sir Percy Ware-Armitage]

Great comments by all! I read years ago in a French language history book that Napoleon, at Waterloo, was suffering from serious digestive problems (I'll leave out the cheese possibilities ) which had been plaguing him for sometimes. I'm sorry. I can't remember the details if it is a fact as stated by that source which added that he was incapacitated on some occasions during the day.

 

[michaelmaltby]

This was a great thread Imalko ....lets revive it

"..... I once read somewhere that "wars against Russia are never won on Russian soil". Statement which can particularly be related to Napoleonic wars, for Russians were defeated at Austerlitz, Friedland and elsewhere but managed to defend themselves on their own soil."

Buffers ...... lose battles, lose ground, but not Holy Mother Russia.

 

[herman1rg]

Did anyone start a cheese thread?

 

[michaelmaltby]

.... I don't believe so

 

[herman1rg]

There is now

Why cheese may possibly be the second best food in the world

 

[swampyankee]

So in short everyone in Europe would be speaking French, designing horrible looking airplanes during the 1930s, and running around with white flags?

8) Just kidding...

Well, had Napoleon prevailed, it would have been the Prussians and Germans who would be stereotyped for running around with white flags.

As to speaking French? Well, it was the court language in Russia. France was, like it or not, a major player on the Continent before German unification.

 

[swampyankee]

The British only care about France when they perceive it as a threat; they only felt Napoleon was a threat because, well, he was, mostly as Britain had joined a coalition that was created to destroy the French Republic well before Napoleon, and the British were funding France's enemies after that.

What would Europe had looked like had the British simply told Austria and the remainder of the anti-France coalition that they really didn't give a damn about the overthrow of the French monarchy and they'd not bother with them?

 

[swampyankee]

THREAD DRIFT ALERT! (But it's about cheese so...)

Problem with the US is a lack of good domestic cheeses. That's Pasturization for ya'. Kills all the good bugs that make great cheese. Grew up thinking American, Swiss and Cheddar were the only cheeses in the world. Then I married into an italian family and things changed. For the better.

Do you mean domestically produced versions of European cheeses or domestically developed varieties of cheese? If the former, you obviously don't go to the right stores. If the latter, try here, here or here

 

[michaelmaltby]

.... I'm sure they're tasty swampyankee .. but the most complex European-style cheese can be be found in Quebec, here

Our cheeses

Try taking a cost-effective cheese tour in Charlesvoix County on the St Lawrence east of Quebec City. Also home of blueberry beer.

 

[michaelmaltby]

"....What would Europe had looked like had the British simply told Austria and the remainder of the anti-France coalition that they really didn't give a damn about the overthrow of the French monarchy and they'd not bother with them?"
The clash would have been over trade and commercialism ... Continental system imposed vs British free trade .... and in the long run the British system delivered better goods at better prices than the competition and Europeans would vote with their wallets

 

[swampyankee]

"....What would Europe had looked like had the British simply told Austria and the remainder of the anti-France coalition that they really didn't give a damn about the overthrow of the French monarchy and they'd not bother with them?"
The clash would have been over trade and commercialism ... Continental system imposed vs British free trade .... and in the long run the British system delivered better goods at better prices than the competition and Europeans would vote with their wallets

I think that the Continental system was a response to the British joining the coalition against France and Napoleon. If the British weren't involved, Napoleon probably wouldn't have started the Continental system. Nor, for that matter, would the RN have press-ganged sailors off of US merchant ships, meaning no War of 1812, no President Jackson, no .....

I've got to stop before I get into full butterfly mode.

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Do you mean domestically produced versions of European cheeses or domestically developed varieties of cheese? If the former, you obviously don't go to the right stores. If the latter, try here, here or here

There are very good domestic cheeses, the problem is the price. They slab the "Artisan" tag on everything, and people are brainwashed into paying more.

Plus unlike in Europe they cut it into huge wedges instead of leaving it on the wheel letting you order how much you want. The excuse I was given is because they have to package it, stick a lable on it, and give it an expiration date.

But then again I had a guy here tell me that cheese that does not come presliced into thin slices and wrapped is for snobs.

Like I said great domestic cheeses, but nothing beats the great Euro cheeses.

Cheese should be sold like in the pic I posted. You walk up, say what kind, and how many "grams" you want. It is then cut directly from the wheel.

 

[michaelmaltby]

".... I think that the Continental system was a response to the British joining the coalition"

I think it was a 'defense' against a much more commercially successful, about to industrialize system that used it's navy, and generously financed its navy to protect market access/share .

 

[michaelmaltby]

Global Cheese, Kensington Mkt, Toronto

 

[pbehn]

One of the great moments of my life was giving some Christmas cake and Wensleydale cheese to the hotel staff in Normandy, France. The Patron was French and loved it because his wife was from Yorkshire and had eaten it before, the rest of the staff were half and half between like and dislike but as an Englishman it was great to hear a Frenchman say the taste was too strong.