What if the Allies had declared war on the Soviets in 1939.

[Nonskimmer]

Please do!

 

[Medvedya]

It's still a commissioned vessel in the VMF (although it's moored in concrete now) and has a crew who are both curators and live aboard her.

During the siege it was kitted out with Ack Ack guns (PVO) as part of the city's defences.

 

[mkloby]

Incidentally - I'm going back to St. Petes in a little over a weeks time (just got my visa through today) I'll try and get some pictures of the Aurora when I'm there.

That would be most excellent!

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

Yeap looking foward to that Med. Good to have you back around though.

 

[Gnomey]

Yeah, look forward to the pics. I have seen her when I was in St Petersburg but I didn't go around her (were only their for the day so it was only the Palace's that I saw).

I would agree with most people and say an alliance between Germany and the Soviets in 1939 would not of changed the outcome of the battles in the West in 1939/40. I think that it would of possibably bought the Russians more time to rebuild their armed forces and so be better prepared for any Barbarossa style attack that the Germans may launch later in the the decade (likely between 41 and 43).

 

[DerAdlerIstGelandet]

The only problem with that would be that it would make a Barbarossa really hard because the Russians would allready be at your front door and in your country due to the aliance. They also would want to be part of the occupation of France.

 

[Gnomey]

Exactly which makes the possibility of a formal alliance between the two (for more than just Poland) even more unlikely. The case could be put though not to give them occupation rights because they had no troops on the ground (like not giving the Soviets occupation rights on mainland Japan).

 

[Cojimar 1945]

The Royal Navy was considerably weaker than the US navy. People may be overestimating it.

 

[Soren]

With Hitler in charge I find it very hard to believe that Germany could ever have the Soviet Union as an ally for any long period of time.

 

[Gnomey]

The Royal Navy was considerably weaker than the US navy. People may be overestimating it.

Not in 1939, the Royal Navy was the strongest in the world at that time. Was only after the American's entered the war and started rearming that their Navy took of in size peaking in 1945 (as did the RN).

 

[plan_D]

The Soviet Union would have probably only pushed through Finland and into Norway. There the German forces and Soviet Union would have met - the Germans would have had to cross the Channel, and if the Soviets bothered they'd have to cross the North Sea. It wasn't going to happen. It'd have all been basically the same, since Hitler would have turned on the Soviets anyway.

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

The RN at the time had absolute naval superiority in the atlantic and north sea- plus of course something which is often forgotten- the only Russian warm water port is in the black sea, the only way out is through the Bosphurus, we couldn't stop them coming through there but in traveling to Britain to fight there you have to make it past Alexandria, Malta and Gibralta- all the Russian ports in the arctic circle freeze solid for 5/6 months of the year! as such the Soviet navy can all but be ignored in this discussion i believe, what can't be ignored is the RN's history, experience and size..........

 

[Nonskimmer]

the only Russian warm water port is in the black sea...all the Russian ports in the arctic circle freeze solid for 5/6 months of the year!

The Kola Fjord, and the Northern Fleet base at Severomorsk just north of Murmansk, are open water year round. Not to mention Vladivostok on the Pacific of course.

 

[Glider]

The Russian Navy wouldn't have been any help to the Germans as I believe it was the least effective arm of any of the participants in WW2

 

[schwarzpanzer]

My thoughts are:

Having the advance to the channel would have been a bad thing for Germany or the Soviets IMO because they both wanted to attack each other, preferably when Britain was out of the way and the other nation was war-weary.

I think for the Soviets, Barbarossa would come even sooner and Stalin would be even less prepared. Also, the Germans could cut into the centre of the Russian advance, isolating ands maybe destroying those in Europe?

For the Germans, well the Soviets in France could open another front - much like D-Day.

I expect that when both sides got near Spain, that memory of the Civil War there might start tensions?

Would the BoB have happened? Would Britain just sue for peace? What would I-16's add, if anything? Would Hitler be more, or less patient about Barbarossa? Would the US realise it's error, crap it's pants and attack?

I like someone's ideas of attacking Germany from the West, halting the German and maybe Soviet advance into Poland, nipping it inthe bud. What would've been the consequences of that though?

 

[the lancaster kicks ass]

Not to mention Vladivostok on the Pacific of course

yes i ignored that one on account of the fact it's on the other side of the world and they'd have to get past the japaneese too, didn't know about the others though..........

 

[HealzDevo]

Still pressure on Malta and all those places, if you are in an Alliance with Germany could be effective. Malta and all of those places would have been useful as shipping places for convoys to stop and thus there would have been problems if they were in enemy hands or under attack... The US was probably doing underhand deals before it was in the war with Britain...