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Only the same as Bergstrom. Victory 203, June 1943, in the Groningen area. I think that it may have been in early July, after the arrival of the specially finished and GM-1 equipped 109s but before the unit was fully operational. In either case this would indeed be ahead of the formation/designation of JG 50 of in August.
Cheers
Steve
I disagree, every FW 187 built and developed further on the different DB engines (with the same radiators as the the Me 110) could intercept a Moussie day and night. It is weather a myth nor uimpossible from the hard facts we have.
There is no evidence that an OPERATIONAL Fw 187 fighter would have had a large enough speed advantage over a Mosquito flying at altitude to enable consistently successful interceptions.
As far as I can tell only two DB 601 powered Fw 187 were ever completed (V5 (test bed for hot cooling experiments) and V7 (originally a record attempt project, later converted to B-0, retaining the werknummer 1977) so I've no idea what you are basing your assumptions on. Neither of these would bear much resemblance to a service aircraft.
The only versions approximating service aircraft were the A-0s of the Factory Protection Staffel, some later sent to Vaerlose, and they were powered by Jumo engines and unlikely to bother a Mosquito.
Whatever the RLM ordered in July 1942 (and the RLM had decided that the Fw 187 might fulfil the roles of night fighter and high altitude interceptor once fitted with DB 605 engines) the Fw 187 programme was axed on 31st August 1942 and Focke - Wulf ordered to stop all work on the type.
Not one single aircraft was built as a result of the RLM's development contract of 20th July, actually a series of eight individual contracts. This is not strictly speaking a production order. Three mock ups were started as of about 4th August.
20th July to 31st August that's how long a glimmer of hope for the type existed.
Again I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.
Cheers
Steve
The B Mk IV had a maximum speed of 380 mph (611 km/h), a cruising speed of 265 mph (426 km/h), ceiling of 34,000 ft (10,360 m), a range of 2,040 nm (3,280 km), and a climb rate of 2,500 ft per minute (762 m).[97]
Again, still catchable by a late 1943 single seat DB605 powered FW187 during the day. At night it would be a different story of course, as the FW187 is not able to match that with radar gear and a second seat.In October 1943 it was decided that all B Mk IVs and all B Mk IXs then in service would be converted to carry the 4,000 lb (1,812 kg) "Cookie", and all B Mk IXs built after that date were designed to allow them to be converted to carry the weapon.The B Mk IX had a maximum speed of 408 mph (656 km/h), a cruising speed of 250 mph (402 km/h), ceiling of 36,000 ft (10,970 m), a range of 2,450 nm (3,940 km), and a climb rate of 2,850 feet per minute (869 m).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Specifications
The 1942 Mark II Mosquito fighter version had a 366mph top speed, which given as the 1940 version of the FW187 that has been suggested having around >380 mph speed, there shouldn't be problem catching it.
In 1943 the faster bomber version appeared (Mark IV):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito#Variants
By this point the FW187 would have had the more powerful DB605 and could beat that speed on both ends.
Again, still catchable by a late 1943 single seat DB605 powered FW187 during the day. At night it would be a different story of course, as the FW187 is not able to match that with radar gear and a second seat.
Again, all so much woulda coulda shoulda.
Can you provide some numbers to show that the Bomber variant had that speed in 1942 AND was operating in any sort of numbers?There would have been as good as no F.IIs over occupied territory in daylight until about April 1943, and then only under cloud cover. The Bomber and PR variants over Europe from 1941 (PR) and 1942 (Bomber) were both 380 mph or above in service.
Wrong, it based on hard technical facts and datas!
Wrong - it based on paper projects that didn't fly, didn't reach the mock-up stage and certainly didn't catch Mosquitos, P-38s, Spitfires, Me 210s, Tiger Moths or Polikarpov Po2s.
.Again, all so much woulda coulda shoulda
I think the incredibly stupid and lacking foresight fits the guys that made the decision perfectly: Goering and Udet. Goering was so wedded to the concept of a heavy 'destroyer' aircraft that when the FW187 couldn't be effectively shoe-horned into that role, he had no use for it and his catspaw in the Technical Branch, Udet, killed the project; its a testament to the quality of the aircraft that it soldiered on as a project despite this, but due to the pressures of war and Milch wanting to maximize existing production, rather than add in a new type, it was never to be after being passed over the first time..
you could add....."but didnt".
In my book that either makes the germans incredibly stupid, or, the claims being made here are bogus.
Im happy with either answer.....
I'm sick to your national biases and protection of the mythical Moussie and P38!
Can you provide some numbers to show that the Bomber variant had that speed in 1942 AND was operating in any sort of numbers?
Also was that speed fully decked out with bombs and fuel or without bombs?
The A-0 did fly but with 528kph at 6,000m wouldn't have troubled a Mosquito which was significantly faster. It also took the Fw 187 A-0 something over ten minutes to climb to 6000m during which it would be travelling at a much lower speed whilst it's target flew away
The Fw 187 was shoe horned into the heavy fighter role, that's precisely what the A-0 was, hence two crew. V4 was the prototype for the A-0 pre-production series. In the first paragraph of specifications it is clearly defined.
"In keeping with its design role of heavy fighter............."
Even assuming that some of the projected figures, or even figures from the two DB 601 equipped test aircraft, could miraculously and for the first time in aviation history be transferred to a fully armed and equipped production version in front line service the speed advantages given would still be marginal for successful interceptions.
Since this never happened I'd suggest "woulda, shoulda, coulda........but never did" is about right.
All the rest is "sound and fury signifying nothing" as a bloke from just up the road from me once wrote.
Cheers
Steve
Provide arguments rather then babbling!