What if you only had two aircraft to fight WWII with?

[jmcalli2]

What if rules:
1. You have to fight WWII with only two types of aircraft. For example, you could choose the Me 109 and the B-17, or you could choose the A6M and the the FW 190.
2. The aircraft must have been flying (first flight on or before) June 1 1940.
3. These two types must perform all aviation tasks from day fighter carrier fighter to torpedo bomber to night fighter to trainer to tactical and strategic bombing to cargo transport to paratrooper drops, etc.

This is just for fun discussions.

My picks are the B-24 and the F4U.

What are your picks?

 

[wuzak]

The June 1 1940 date excludes aircraft such as the Mosquito and P-51.

Do the aircraft remain in the same configuration as when they first flew? F4U (and B-24?) wouldn't be that useful in that state.

 

[jmcalli2]

The June 1 1940 date excludes aircraft such as the Mosquito and P-51.

Do the aircraft remain in the same configuration as when they first flew? F4U (and B-24?) wouldn't be that useful in that state.

No, you get to adapt them to various roles within reason ( no four-engined A-20s, but a two-seat Spitfire would be OK )
Should we change the first flight date to Jan 1 1943?
Also, perhaps we should have you pick which side you're on; Allies would pick differently from Axis for example.

 

[GrauGeist]

Well shoot, so we can't combine various nations?
I would have gone with the P-36 and the Ju88...

 

[A.G. Williams]

What if rules:
1. You have to fight WWII with only two types of aircraft. For example, you could choose the Me 109 and the B-17, or you could choose the A6M and the the FW 190.
2. The aircraft must have been flying (first flight on or before) June 1 1940.
3. These two types must perform all aviation tasks from day fighter carrier fighter to torpedo bomber to night fighter to trainer to tactical and strategic bombing to cargo transport to paratrooper drops, etc.

Your first-flight date limit seems a bit odd from a UK perspective. Given that the air fighting over France was taking place then, with the Battle of Britain starting in July, then a first-flight date would have to have been years earlier for the participants to be equipped with the planes in order for them to be available for the most important air battle of the war. So no choice for the RAF - it would have to be the Spitfire, which fortunately was rather good.

Unfortunately, the RAF's larger aircraft were not so good at the start of the war. The Ju-88 was surely the best multi-engined aircraft around at that time (until the Mosquito came along).

The limitation to two aircraft types does cause a problem in that I would argue you need three: a single-engined fighter; a fast twin engined strike/night-fighter; and a big bomber/transport/MRP. It is difficult to see how this range of roles could be covered by only two aircraft, except by making them massively compromised (e.g. a Wellington night fighter?). And that's before carrier strike is considered.

 

[Glider]

The limitation to two aircraft types does cause a problem in that I would argue you need three: a single-engined fighter; a fast twin engined strike/night-fighter; and a big bomber/transport/MRP. It is difficult to see how this range of roles could be covered by only two aircraft, except by making them massively compromised (e.g. a Wellington night fighter?). And that's before carrier strike is considered.

Totally agree in that it has to be three.

Personally mine would be
1 - Spitfire
2 - Beaufighter
3 - B24

 

[tomo pauk]

It is technically impossible to fight all of the ww2 with aircraft that weren't there already in 1939.

 

[fastmongrel]

1. Boulton Paul Defiant
2. Amiot 143

You didn't say you wanted to win

 

[A.G. Williams]

Of course, you might be able to achieve a lot with just two planes if you started from scratch with some very careful design work. This was my attempt at a versatile RAF multi-role plan, a while back: BRITISH WW2 MULTI

That would leave the bomber/transport/MRP roles to be performed by the second aircraft, which is an easier problem.

 

[special ed]

B-25 & F6F

 

[tomo pauk]

If we want to fight ww2 in it's whole length (1st Sept 1939 on) with aircraft that were there before ww2 started, then I'd choose Spitfire and B-17.
Spitfire as a day fighter/interceptor, night fighter (same radar as installed on Defiant for starters), fighter bomber, LR hi-alt recon over contested airspace, long range escort fighter, navalized multi-role aircraft. B-17 as bomber (surprise), LR MPA, and converted as transport.

Alternatively, Fw 190 or Fw 187 instead of Spitfire.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The June 1 1940 date excludes aircraft such as the Mosquito and P-51.

And the Heinkel He 280, first flight Sept 1940.

 

[jmcalli2]

Well shoot, so we can't combine various nations?
I would have gone with the P-36 and the Ju88...

You get to pick ANY aircraft from ANY nation in service by the 'first flight date,' keeping in mind what your military objectives are; intercepting high altitude bombers, or carrying out a strategic bombing campaign?
But remember, you two types have to also serve as your only cargo planes, your only trainers, your only fighters, bombers, etc.

 

[jmcalli2]

Your first-flight date limit seems a bit odd from a UK perspective. Given that the air fighting over France was taking place then, with the Battle of Britain starting in July, then a first-flight date would have to have been years earlier for the participants to be equipped with the planes in order for them to be available for the most important air battle of the war. So no choice for the RAF - it would have to be the Spitfire, which fortunately was rather good.

Unfortunately, the RAF's larger aircraft were not so good at the start of the war. The Ju-88 was surely the best multi-engined aircraft around at that time (until the Mosquito came along).

The limitation to two aircraft types does cause a problem in that I would argue you need three: a single-engined fighter; a fast twin engined strike/night-fighter; and a big bomber/transport/MRP. It is difficult to see how this range of roles could be covered by only two aircraft, except by making them massively compromised (e.g. a Wellington night fighter?). And that's before carrier strike is considered.

Well, there's the problem; set the date too late, and all the aircraft fighting in 1939-40 are ignored. Set the date too late, and you're left with Meteors, P-80s, Me-262s, Vampires, and Ar-234s.

You have to keep to two aircraft; that's the fun of it.
And remember, if your chosen Nations used aircraft carriers, you have to be able to operate from them too. That's why I chose the F4U instead of the P-38.
I'm open to suggestions for modifications of the first flight rules.

 

[jmcalli2]

Totally agree in that it has to be three.

Personally mine would be
1 - Spitfire
2 - Beaufighter
3 - B24

No, it has to be two. That's the difficulty.

 

[tomo pauk]

Well, there's the problem; set the date too late, and all the aircraft fighting in 1939-40 are ignored. Set the date too late, and you're left with Meteors, P-80s, Me-262s, Vampires, and Ar-234s.

I'm open to suggestions for modifications of the rules.

My suggestion is to set the rule to exclude any design that was not flying before, perhaps, 1st January 1939.

 

[jmcalli2]

If we want to fight ww2 in it's whole length (1st Sept 1939 on) with aircraft that were there before ww2 started, then I'd choose Spitfire and B-17.
Spitfire as a day fighter/interceptor, night fighter (same radar as installed on Defiant for starters), fighter bomber, LR hi-alt recon over contested airspace, long range escort fighter, navalized multi-role aircraft. B-17 as bomber (surprise), LR MPA, and converted as transport.

Alternatively, Fw 190 or Fw 187 instead of Spitfire.

So, would you be able to protect B-17s with only Spitfires? Good choices though.

 

[tomo pauk]

So, would you be able to protect B-17s with only Spitfires?

Of course.

 

[herman1rg]

Fairey Battle and
Gloster Gladiator

 

[jmcalli2]

My suggestion is to set the rule to exclude any design that was not flying before, perhaps, 1st January 1939.

But then you're relegating yourself to mid 1930s tech; a few long range bombers and all short range fighters.