What if you only had two aircraft to fight WWII with?

[PAT303]

The Corsair was a fighter-bomber into the 1950's. The Spitfire, not so much.

Wouldn't matter what the Corsair did in 1950, it's what it couldn't do in 1939 that's important.

 

[tomo pauk]

It wouldn't matter if it could, a 1940 Corsair has no armor, self sealing tanks and is armed with two cowl mounted .30's and two M1 .50 browning's with no specialised ammunition, it actually has nothing that's makes it a warbird. If you want to go to war in 1939/40 your enemy will be Bf109's, for those you need Spitfires, forget what comes later, without Spits from day one your war will be a short one.

I've addressed the crucial issue - timing - in several above posts.

 

[PAT303]

If you don't have the Hurricane then you can do nothing in the Battle of France and lose the Battle of Britain.

Don't think so, there is no way Germany could win the BoB, today's integrated air defence doctrine was written, tried and perfected over England in 1940.

 

[pbehn]

Don't think so, there is no way Germany could win the BoB, today's integrated air defence doctrine was written, tried and perfected over England in 1940.

There were only circa 120 Spitfires in service in Sept 1939 rising to 250 at the start of the BoB. Hurricanes inflicted losses during the Battle of France, as a type the Spitfire was better than the Hurricane but there were so few of them there would be no integrated defence. The new factory didn't start producing until the middle of the battle.

 

[Juha3]

Glider gave already my pick, Spitfire and Halifax. I choose Hali as the bomber because LR bombing went to night job because the lack of effective LR escort fighter. But not all Spits were short-legged

- Aviation (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/)
- - Longest Spitfire raid of WWII. (Longest Spitfire raid of WWII.)

Wildcat

12-30-2008 05:57 AM​

Longest Spitfire raid of WWII.
On the 27th of Nov 1944, five spitfires from No. 549 sqn RAF and 2 spitfires from No.1 Fighter Wing, RAAF in conjuction with 4 B-25's from No. 2 sqn RAAF plus an ASR Catalina, attacked and destroyed a Japanese radar station at Cape Lore on Portuguese Timor. The raid was a round trip of some 850 miles taking 4.5 hours. The Spitfires were first to attack carrying out strafing runs on the installations resulting in the radar tower being destroyed. The B-25's then destroyed the remaining buildings once the spitfires were clear.
The spitfire pilots flying Mk.VIII's, were -

No.1 Fighter Wing
G/Capt "Black Jack" Walker DSO, RAAF
W/Cdr R Wilkinson OBE, DFM and Bar, C de G. RAF

No. 549 sqn RAF
S/Ldr E Bocock DFC
F/Lt W Wedd
F/Lt L Webster
W/Off A Franks
W/Off J Beaton
...

 

[N4521U]

P-47
Corsair

 

[jmcalli2]

The June 1 1940 date excludes aircraft such as the Mosquito and P-51.

Do the aircraft remain in the same configuration as when they first flew? F4U (and B-24?) wouldn't be that useful in that state.

No.
Pick any two aircraft from any two countries that were flying on or before the 'first flight date.'

BUT, you ONLY have those two types for every job you need an aircraft to do.

 

[jmcalli2]

All the boxes ticked off. The Corsair could operate from carriers as well as ground bases. That's a big deal in the Pacific. If I could cheat I'd swap the B-24 for the B-29 (when did the B-36 first fly?).

First B-29 flight 9/1/42. First B-36 flight 8/8/46.

 

[SaparotRob]

First B-29 flight 9/1/42. First B-36 flight 8/8/46.

Yeah, I know.

 

[jmcalli2]

It wouldn't matter if it could, a 1940 Corsair has no armor, self sealing tanks and is armed with two cowl mounted .30's and two M1 .50 browning's with no specialised ammunition, it actually has nothing that's makes it a warbird. If you want to go to war in 1939/40 your enemy will be Bf109's, for those you need Spitfires, forget what comes later, without Spits from day one your war will be a short one.

You are not limited to the versions flying on the 'first flight date,' just the type. As time went on you could use the versions that came into service.

 

[SaparotRob]

You are not limited to the versions flying on the 'first flight date,' just the type. As time went on you could use the versions that came into service.

And that's why I agreed with jmcalli2. I thought I missed something. As we're picking any 2 types with a built in technology creep,The Corsair goes the distance. The P-47 is great but I couldn't see it landing on U.S.S. Bogue.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If you don't have the Hurricane then you can do nothing in the Battle of France and lose the Battle of Britain.

Not if you have the Bf 109. You take them both.

J jmcalli2 Did I miss the condition of this thread that we must play the Allied side?

 

[jmcalli2]

Glider gave already my pick, Spitfire and Halifax. I choose Hali as the bomber because LR bombing went to night job because the lack of effective LR escort fighter. But not all Spits were short-legged

- Aviation (http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/)
- - Longest Spitfire raid of WWII. (Longest Spitfire raid of WWII.)

Wildcat

12-30-2008 05:57 AM​

Longest Spitfire raid of WWII.
On the 27th of Nov 1944, five spitfires from No. 549 sqn RAF and 2 spitfires from No.1 Fighter Wing, RAAF in conjuction with 4 B-25's from No. 2 sqn RAAF plus an ASR Catalina, attacked and destroyed a Japanese radar station at Cape Lore on Portuguese Timor. The raid was a round trip of some 850 miles taking 4.5 hours. The Spitfires were first to attack carrying out strafing runs on the installations resulting in the radar tower being destroyed. The B-25's then destroyed the remaining buildings once the spitfires were clear.
The spitfire pilots flying Mk.VIII's, were -

No.1 Fighter Wing
G/Capt "Black Jack" Walker DSO, RAAF
W/Cdr R Wilkinson OBE, DFM and Bar, C de G. RAF

No. 549 sqn RAF
S/Ldr E Bocock DFC
F/Lt W Wedd
F/Lt L Webster
W/Off A Franks
W/Off J Beaton
...

Great info! Thanks! I must wonder how the Cat kept up with the others.

My understanding was that many escort missions into Germany were 6+ hours. From Bodney to Berlin is over 520 miles one way. And, if you're taking the part of the Allies, from Iwo Jima to Japan was about 670+ miles. Tough for a Spit, unless you change your war strategy.

 

[jmcalli2]

And that's why I agreed with jmcalli2. I thought I missed something. As we're picking any 2 types with a built in technology creep,The Corsair goes the distance. The P-47 is great but I couldn't see it landing on U.S.S. Bogue.

P-47 first flight was in May 41.

If I thought it would be possible, I'd swap the F4U for the P-38, but I just can't see Lightning landing on a carrier. LOL

 

[Shortround6]

If you have to use just two airplanes and use them as trainers the whole thing falls apart. Operational losses in training let alone combat will be so high that the opposition doesn't have to shoot down anything.
" Never flown before cadet Jones? No Problem, just climb in the right seat of that B-17 and instructor Bob will have you sorted in no time!"

"Oh Smith, you have 10 hours in Gliders as a civilian ? Great, just climb in that F4U (the ensign eliminator) and off you go!"

Planes like this were never going to replace the AT-6 let alone the primary trainers without a horrendous accident rate.

Most bombers being used as transports are just going to lead to more shipbuilding, railroad cars and truck factories.

Yes many countries did use (or tried to) old bombers as transports, they just weren't very good at it. Tons of cargo or passengers miles moved per gallon of gasoline.

The B-24 was one of the best but they only built 287 C-87s, They built 1170 C-54s.

 

[PAT303]

There were only circa 120 Spitfires in service in Sept 1939 rising to 250 at the start of the BoB. Hurricanes inflicted losses during the Battle of France, as a type the Spitfire was better than the Hurricane but there were so few of them there would be no integrated defence. The new factory didn't start producing until the middle of the battle.

The reason there was so few of them is because only 300 were ordered, the Spit was the interim fighter until I believe Hawker got the Tornado flying. Someone with more knowledge can correct me on this.

 

[PAT303]

You are not limited to the versions flying on the 'first flight date,' just the type. As time went on you could use the versions that came into service.

How are any of your pre 1942 American fighters going to tackle the FW190 below 20,000 and Bf 109's above it?.

 

[PAT303]

If you have to use just two airplanes and use them as trainers the whole thing falls apart. Operational losses in training let alone combat will be so high that the opposition doesn't have to shoot down anything.

Which rules out the Corsair, it killed so many pilots that already had their wings that the first operational squadron was made up of the pilots that survived out of the squadrons that first got them, so bad were the loses that it was called the Ensign killer.

 

[PAT303]

My understanding was that many escort missions into Germany were 6+ hours. From Bodney to Berlin is over 520 miles one way. And, if you're taking the part of the Allies, from Iwo Jima to Japan was about 670+ miles

No 1940's fighter could fly that far so the point is mute.

 

[GrauGeist]

Which rules out the Corsair, it killed so many pilots that already had their wings that the first operational squadron was made up of the pilots that survived out of the squadrons that first got them, so bad were the loses that it was called the Ensign killer.

"Ensign Eliminator"