What if you only had two aircraft to fight WWII with?

[wuzak]

The reason there was so few of them is because only 300 were ordered, the Spit was the interim fighter until I believe Hawker got the Tornado flying. Someone with more knowledge can correct me on this.

The Tornado and Typhoon were meant to replace the Hurricane and Spitfire.

It wasn't that the Spitfire and Hurricane were "interim" aircraft, moreso that the the Tornado and Typhoon were next generation aircraft.

The war probably sped up deployment of the Typhoon - it may not have been truly ready when it initially entered service.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Off to Wikipedia!

The Poles are uniquely suited to using just two combat aircraft. They don't need a strategic bomber, nor a long range fighter. They need small, well armed and fast aircraft. Put the intended Taurus in the fighter and the early Jumo-powered Bf 109 will be in trouble.

 

[Juha3]

Great info! Thanks! I must wonder how the Cat kept up with the others.

The Cat was of course sent earlier, the attack force probably passed it near the target and the Cat then circled at a waiting point waiting info on possible "customer(s)" then retired along the same route than the attack force.

My understanding was that many escort missions into Germany were 6+ hours. From Bodney to Berlin is over 520 miles one way. And, if you're taking the part of the Allies, from Iwo Jima to Japan was about 670+ miles. Tough for a Spit, unless you change your war strategy.

Yes, that is why I chose Halifax, for long range night bombing ops. B-24 was better day bomber and LR Maritime patrol bomber, maybe also better transport plane. But Hali might well have been a better night bomber. At least it could carry heavier bomb loads and a 4,000 lb blockbuster bomb, even if they usually did not carry them, that was mainly the job of Lancasters.
And because there were no other takers for Bristol Hercules (e.g. Stirlings and Beaufighters) so Hercules Halifaxes would have been available earlier.

 

[Admiral Beez]

No love for the P-38 Lightning? First flight Jan 1939.

There's almost nothing it can't do [2.0] Lightning Modifications & Derivatives / Postwar

 

[SaparotRob]

Which rules out the Corsair, it killed so many pilots that already had their wings that the first operational squadron was made up of the pilots that survived out of the squadrons that first got them, so bad were the loses that it was called the Ensign killer.

I agree with you. The point of this thread is we get only two. That makes it very tricky. It's unrealistic but what the heck, I want to play too.
Can we enlarge the playground by adding two non-combat types to the mix? Or can we assume that everyone has civil aviation so that there are training aircraft? Maybe everyone has trainers and we get one more "non-combat" type to pick? (C-47)
Nah, it's more fun this way.

 

[pbehn]

The reason there was so few of them is because only 300 were ordered, the Spit was the interim fighter until I believe Hawker got the Tornado flying. Someone with more knowledge can correct me on this.

The order was very quickly doubled but that was academic because they had not made anywhere near the original 300 when war was declared.

 

[Dimlee]

P-47 first flight was in May 41.

If I thought it would be possible, I'd swap the F4U for the P-38, but I just can't see Lightning landing on a carrier. LOL

Interesting thread about navalised Lighthing:
A navalised P-38 Lightning?

 

[jmcalli2]

If you have to use just two airplanes and use them as trainers the whole thing falls apart. Operational losses in training let alone combat will be so high that the opposition doesn't have to shoot down anything.
" Never flown before cadet Jones? No Problem, just climb in the right seat of that B-17 and instructor Bob will have you sorted in no time!"

"Oh Smith, you have 10 hours in Gliders as a civilian ? Great, just climb in that F4U (the ensign eliminator) and off you go!"

Planes like this were never going to replace the AT-6 let alone the primary trainers without a horrendous accident rate.

Most bombers being used as transports are just going to lead to more shipbuilding, railroad cars and truck factories.

Yes many countries did use (or tried to) old bombers as transports, they just weren't very good at it. Tons of cargo or passengers miles moved per gallon of gasoline.

The B-24 was one of the best but they only built 287 C-87s, They built 1170 C-54s.

Because it's a "what if" you get some leeway. Think of all the 4 engined bombers and transports built and make them all B-24s.
As for the trainers, there WAS a study for a two seat training version, but post-war budget cuts doomed it: use a smaller engine and put a second cockpit in place of the fuselage fuel tank on an F4U without armor or self-sealing tanks to make it a lighter aircraft and you have a trainer.

 

[herman1rg]

Next choices
Sopwith Camel
Vickers GunBus

 

[jmcalli2]

How are any of your pre 1942 American fighters going to tackle the FW190 below 20,000 and Bf 109's above it?.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/fw190/ptr-1107.pdf

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/f4u-1-02296.pdf
http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/f4u/p-51b-f4u-1-navycomp.pdf


The last two are comparisons with P-51, but they give you some idea that the F4U would hold its own.

 

[jmcalli2]

Not if you have the Bf 109. You take them both.

J jmcalli2 Did I miss the condition of this thread that we must play the Allied side?

You may play on any side.
You may "mix & match" A/C from any side.

For example, you may decide to pick a P-39 and a P-38 as your two planes and play as Germany; high altitude and medium altitude interceptors, and ground attack to defend the fatherland type of thing.
Or, you could pick the FW-190 and the B-25. it's up to you.

 

[jmcalli2]

No love for the P-38 Lightning? First flight Jan 1939.

There's almost nothing it can't do [2.0] Lightning Modifications & Derivatives / Postwar

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No, just can't see it operating from a carrier!

 

[Dimlee]

Some pairs.
FW 190 and B-17.
P-38 and Do 217.
P-47 and Pe-8 (engines, fuel and instruments are lend leased).
Spitfire and Ju 88.

 

[Dimlee]

Next choices
Sopwith Camel
Vickers GunBus

It's 1940. The manufacturer's warranty has expired.

 

[ThomasP]

Wellington - performed all the rolls we are looking at.
Hurricane - also performed all the rolls we are looking at except very long range escort. A bit slow . . . but with gradual improvements? . . . and later, mods like a new wing?

 

[Shortround6]

Because it's a "what if" you get some leeway. Think of all the 4 engined bombers and transports built and make them all B-24s.
As for the trainers, there WAS a study for a two seat training version, but post-war budget cuts doomed it: use a smaller engine and put a second cockpit in place of the fuselage fuel tank on an F4U without armor or self-sealing tanks to make it a lighter aircraft and you have a trainer.

Well then, there is only one possible bomber that can combine the jobs needed, of course the transport version is just a wee bit different than the bomber.

Boeing Stratoliner.
"It combined the wings, tail, rudder, landing gear, and engines from their production B-17C "
I would note that quote seems to be in error as the plane seems to be using the vertical stabilizer and rudder of the B-17E but perhaps the "E" used the vertical Stabilizer and rudder of the Stratoliner?
at the end of war 5 of them were rebuilt using B-17G wings and horizontal stabilizers and got newer Wright R-1820 engines so there is no reason the transport version could not have kept pace with the bombers as far as gross weight goes.

(British use Avro York and Lancaster?)

The US (and most countries) used at least three different levels of trainers before pilots got to combat/service aircraft. Multi engine pilots spent their first few hundred hours in single engine aircraft before moving to multi engine trainers, like the Anson or Oxford for the Commonwealth or Cessna Bobcats, Beech 18s or others for the Americans.

The Corsair trainer was to be a converted F4U fighter from depots using the original engine, it was pitched as being a transition trainer after training in low and medium powered trainers, not a replacement for the lower powered trainers.

 

[GrauGeist]

The Corsair trainer was to be a converted F4U fighter from depots using the original engine, it was pitched as being a transition trainer after training in low and medium powered trainers, not a replacement for the lower powered trainers.

As long as it wasn't an F3A

 

[wlewisiii]

Hmm. Fun idea.
B-17
A-20
P-47 (first flight 6 May 1941)

 

[SaparotRob]

Only 2 airplanes my friend.

 

[jmcalli2]

Some pairs.
FW 190 and B-17.
P-38 and Do 217.
P-47 and Pe-8 (engines, fuel and instruments are lend leased).
Spitfire and Ju 88.

The P-47 is too late for the 1 June 1940 first flight; it first flew on 6 May 1941.

Interesting on the P-38 and Do 217; made me look up the 217 again.

I wondered who'd pick a Soviet plane. The Pe-8 is an interesting choice.